Minimum alcohol pricing may be dropped

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Original post by CelticSymphony67

No, of course I'm not saying that young folk should not get medical treatment, but there is a minority of people in this country, rich and poor, (the worst drunken fight I have ever seen was at The Grand National Race Meeting, 2004. In the VIP area) who abuse the NHS. I do think that people who go out on a regular basis, get so hammered that they need treatment, again, on a regular basis, need to start paying towards it. I must stress that it is the minority who do it, but in these austere times, I find it frustrating that we as a country pay millions of pounds for NHS treatment which can be avoided. I know what I'm suggesting will never happen, but it does wind me up (as I over £80,000 a year in taxes) but then again, a lot of things about this country wind me up.

For a chap who claims to own a bar, you don't seem to know much about the relative cost to the NHS of booze compared with the level of tax income it brings in.

Reply 41

CelticSymphony67

Claims to own a bar??? I have owned my establishment for four years thanks! The cost to the NHS by alcohol abuse is £2.1 Billion. So yes, I do know what I'm taking about thanks. I have been in the trade for 14 years.

Reply 42

Slumpy

Original post by CelticSymphony67

Ah yes, now you've said it in an internet post, it must be true.
And what's the approximate take in tax per year for the government? Off the top of my head, I make it about 4 times that.

Reply 43

CelticSymphony67

No, I get my figures from Carlsberg UK Magazine, who are my suppliers and we get a quarterly magazine. The cost to the NHS is £2.1 Billion. This has been released to us by Whitehall. In 2012, the income from alcohol taxes is around the £5.6 Billion mark, however, with sales to the continent and the world, it is worth around £14 Billion. * Provisional Figures.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 44

HarveyCanis

I really want to live in this fantastical world where apparently students don't pay tax. Maybe I've just imagined the existence of VAT all my life.

Reply 45

Slumpy

Original post by CelticSymphony67

The 'it must be true' comment was related to your claim of owning a bar, not the figures. Such figures aren't too hard to find online.
OK, so it seems to me as if drinkers are, in fact, not a net drain on the NHS. Odd, eh?

Reply 46

CelticSymphony67

99% of drinkers are great folk who enjoy a drink socially, whether it is in a club, bar or restaurant. We have a problem with the 1%. Who abuse alcohol and cost us, the taxpayer. Alcohol consumption is dropping, and pubs are shutting at an alarming rate. Mark my words, the Pub business in the UK is a model of Capitalism at it's very best (or worst, depends how you look at it). It really is the survival of the fittest. The not reason my head is above water is because I have a loyal band of locals, around 30 of them, that is the only reason I still make a living. If they all buggered off elsewhere, I would be in the poop. The pub I have is actually my Grandfathers local, and the reason I bought it so cheap was that the guy who had it died and his son wanted rid of it, hence. Bought it at a knockdown price. If I could get a buyer for it, I would sell.

Reply 47

Slumpy

Original post by CelticSymphony67

99% of drinkers are great folk who enjoy a drink socially, whether it is in a club, bar or restaurant. We have a problem with the 1%. Who abuse alcohol and cost us, the taxpayer.

Again; drinkers pay a lot of tax. Your rhetoric of the poor taxpayer doesn't work when the taxpayer is also the problem.

Reply 48

CelticSymphony67

Original post by Slumpy

Again; drinkers pay a lot of tax. Your rhetoric of the poor taxpayer doesn't work when the taxpayer is also the problem.

Fair point :smile:

. I agree with that. I think my beef is with the wasters who never work, breed kids like rabbits, drink and take drugs. Again I must stress, I'm talking about the minority. Last post from me tonight, I have enjoyed the chat Slumpy.

Reply 49

Tbx

Original post by amholcroft

You must be on a debate team bringing up such valid points, well done.

Touché, perhaps before you refer to someone as a fool you should check through your facts.

Reply 50

uktotalgamer

Good. I'm overjoyed it's being dropped.

It's just another excuse for people who can't regulate themselves; therefore those that can suffer the consequences. Absolute joke. I suffer for someone elses faults.

Reply 51

amholcroft

Original post by Tbx

Touché, perhaps before you refer to someone as a fool you should check through your facts.

Well think about it, if you are evading tax thereby saving you or your company potentially hundreds of thousands of pound will it matter if the taxes are lowered by 5%? I don't think these tax evaders will suddenly decide to pay tax and lose a lot of money just because its 5% or so less than a couple years ago, of course France is at an extreme of the scale the taxes are so high they're pricing themselves out of the market.

Reply 52

L i b

The Department of Health, Home Office etc were never keen on this idea. It was a Number 10 suggestion that never really took hold.

I suspect as well that it might well be illegal. Legislation was put through on this in Scotland and it is currently being reviewed for legality by the European Commission. Since the UK is the member state, it is the UK Government - not the Scottish authorities - who are essentially arguing its legality and compatibility with free trade rules.

I suspect if the UK Government is dumping it, it may be because they realised how the balance of EU law was beginning to look.

Original post by jblackmoustache

High tobacco prices aren't working so what made the government think high alcohol prices will?

They pretty much certainly are working, actually. That's not, however, to say that high alcohol prices will. I imagine it will reduce consumption somewhat, but that's not the point. The point is to reduce it in harmful drinkers - those who habitually drink to severe excess (alkies, basically). The problem there is that they are by far the most resistant to price changes.

Whilst a little old lady might cut back on the occasional glass of wine in this area, proper boozehounds would rather cut back on food, electricity or whatever else.

Original post by jblackmoustache

In these threads many people address drinking amongst working and lower classes, but fail to address student drinking.

Primarily because young people can drink to considerable excess without causing severe harm to their health. You rarely find an alcoholic under the age of 30.

What you're talking about is a criminal justice issue, not a health one. And kindly remember those pissed up students you see in Leeds will probably be paying considerably more than 45p a unit for their booze in a bar.

Reply 53

Bart1331

It's a free country, why should it be anyone's business how much someone drinks?

Reply 54

Tbx

Original post by amholcroft

I agree with your point, if people want to evade tax they will find a way. However a higher tax rate compared to a lower tax rate will be more of an incentive for those who do pay tax to evade it leading to less tax being paid.

Yes the French example is extreme but was just to help explain my point, most of those people were probably already using tax loopholes, but now their just switching nationalities to avoid it.

Reply 55

Vikki M B

I agree that the minimum pricing won't work in terms of stopping youths drinking and deaths related to alcohol etc.

But it is a little sad when you go into a store and the beer/ cider cheaper than a bottle of water. . .

Reply 56

metalthrashin'mad

Original post by SillyEddy

While I would usually say that rising the prices would just cause alcoholics to simply spend more (and they probably would), I have started to see plenty of alcoholics going to corner shops and simply buying the cheapest thing available. They'll walk in with a tenner and leave with whatever they could afford.

My uncle is an alcoholic who hasn't held down a steady job as long as I've known him. He drinks at least 9 litres of the cheapest cider every day, and if he hasn't got the money he goes round to his mum's/my nan's house and moans until she gives him some money for it, despite the fact all she has is her pension and can't afford it.

If he can't do that he'll just steal from his brother who he's been mooching off for decades. Living in his flat not paying rent, complaining about everything and just drinking. He hasn't seen his daughter in years.

My point is genuine alcoholics will find a way to fund it whether they can afford to or not. A minimum price per unit with do nothing to stop pieces of **** like him.

Reply 57

SnoochToTheBooch

good. people who want to get drunk are going to do it, they'll just spend less money elsewhere. Also I'm sick of being punished for the irresponsibility of a minority in this country.