The Student Room Group

Oxford/Cambridge GEM programmes...

How much weight do Oxford/Cambridge realistically place on GCSEs and A-levels for the graduate-entry route? I know that Oxford ask for passes and Cambridge want you to prove, somehow, that you are at at least A-level standard in Science before applying.

I do have passes, albeit **** ones, in the three sciences at A-level, but I'll have a first class degree in biomedical science and have research experience with a few papers. Will that negate the need for good A-levels in the application process, assuming a good BMAT?

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Reply 1
Original post by MattKneale
How much weight do Oxford/Cambridge realistically place on GCSEs and A-levels for the graduate-entry route? I know that Oxford ask for passes and Cambridge want you to prove, somehow, that you are at at least A-level standard in Science before applying.

I do have passes, albeit **** ones, in the three sciences at A-level, but I'll have a first class degree in biomedical science and have research experience with a few papers. Will that negate the need for good A-levels in the application process, assuming a good BMAT?


Hi Matt,

I do not think that Oxford places a big weight on GCSE's or A Levels for graduate entry. On their website (please see below), they mention that they require two science A-levels but don't specify the grades. They do specify that you require at least a 2:1 for your undergrad.

I was at the Exploring graduate entry to medicine event yesterday and a representative from Oxford Uni spoke about their program and teaching method.

He said that there was a very strong emphasis on the scientific aspects of medicine and that their aim was to produce doctors with academic scientific knowledge and strong clinical knowledge. Not only to know how to diagnose and treat a disease but also have the understanding of why it happened in the first place, etc...

Therefore, in the admission process, they place a strong emphasis on Academic excellence. For your situation, I think your 1st class degree in Biomedical science will outweigh your GCSE and A Level grades. They will look at the consistency of your grades for your undergrad.

In addition to having excellent BMAT scores, the PS is very important; reflect on your experience at university, how your course has prepared you to scientific excellence and how it has contributed to making you a better med student etc ... You will have to prove and elaborate that you have the academic ability to be on the course and succeed in it.


http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/accelerated/selection-criteria

"Academic ability. This is an intensive and academically-oriented course, and you will have to show that you will be able to cope with it. We accept that some excellent students are "late developers", and so we will not insist on excellent A-levels or an outstanding first degree result (though we would normally expect two science A-levels and a 2:i or better, or a GPA above 3.5); but we do need to see some hard evidence of real academic strength. This course has a very strong academic and scientific emphasis; we need to be sure that we are selecting students who are academically in the top flight. We shall look for: scholastic excellence (in the broadest sense); evidence of originality of thought or initiative; good comprehension and verbal reasoning; an ability to present ideas clearly in writing; an ability to handle and interpret quantitative data; an ability to think analytically
Reply 2
Original post by MattKneale
How much weight do Oxford/Cambridge realistically place on GCSEs and A-levels for the graduate-entry route? I know that Oxford ask for passes and Cambridge want you to prove, somehow, that you are at at least A-level standard in Science before applying.


I don't think either of them are particularly fussed about A levels.

I do have passes, albeit **** ones, in the three sciences at A-level, but I'll have a first class degree in biomedical science and have research experience with a few papers. Will that negate the need for good A-levels in the application process, assuming a good BMAT?


Confident, aren't you? :wink:
Original post by Democracy
I don't think either of them are particularly fussed about A levels.


Good stuff; so is it just degree (+ grades that make up your degree) and the BMAT and PS?

Confident, aren't you? :wink:


Haha, well unless I absolutely flunk my last exams I should get it :smile: Officially jinxed it now.
Original post by MattKneale
Good stuff; so is it just degree (+ grades that make up your degree) and the BMAT and PS?



Haha, well unless I absolutely flunk my last exams I should get it :smile: Officially jinxed it now.


This website seems to suggest that you'll need three As at A-level, but I'm not sure how accurate this is. http://cgcm.soc.srcf.net/pages/applying.php
Original post by Witty Username
This website seems to suggest that you'll need three As at A-level, but I'm not sure how accurate this is. http://cgcm.soc.srcf.net/pages/applying.php


Oh okay, I know Oxford ask for three but didn't know Cambridge did as well. I do have biology, chemistry and physics anyway, just not to a good standard! Since they ask for passes I might be alright?
Original post by MattKneale
Oh okay, I know Oxford ask for three but didn't know Cambridge did as well. I do have biology, chemistry and physics anyway, just not to a good standard! Since they ask for passes I might be alright?


I've seen that requirement thrown around on the internet, even though the official cambridge website doesn't mention it. I went to the oxford GEM open day, and they didn't seem as fussed about your a-levels etc. but it is worth mentioning that a lot of the other applicants are oxbridge grads and have stellar academics.
Original post by Witty Username
I've seen that requirement thrown around on the internet, even though the official cambridge website doesn't mention it. I went to the oxford GEM open day, and they didn't seem as fussed about your a-levels etc. but it is worth mentioning that a lot of the other applicants are oxbridge grads and have stellar academics.


That does worry me; the optimistic side of me says that if they wanted purely stellar academics then they'd have made the entry requirements far less encouraging to people like me. The pessimistic side says it's just to catch the odd spectacular applicant from elsewhere and the rest are MENSA-quality applicants haha.

Will need to do a bit more research. I'll try and get some FoI request from them regarding how many successful applicants are from non-Oxbridge/Russell Group universities. Not gonna hold my breath though!
Original post by MattKneale
That does worry me; the optimistic side of me says that if they wanted purely stellar academics then they'd have made the entry requirements far less encouraging to people like me. The pessimistic side says it's just to catch the odd spectacular applicant from elsewhere and the rest are MENSA-quality applicants haha.

Will need to do a bit more research. I'll try and get some FoI request from them regarding how many successful applicants are from non-Oxbridge/Russell Group universities. Not gonna hold my breath though!


Honestly I think the reason so many of the applicants are from oxbridge is that others are scared off and therefore less likely to apply. If you don't apply, you'll have no chance of getting in! :smile:

Here's a FOI request from 2010 http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/graduate_entry_medicine_admissio_15#incoming-106537
Original post by Witty Username
Honestly I think the reason so many of the applicants are from oxbridge is that others are scared off and therefore less likely to apply. If you don't apply, you'll have no chance of getting in! :smile:

Here's a FOI request from 2010 http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/graduate_entry_medicine_admissio_15#incoming-106537


That is all true of course, though I wonder if the odds of getting in elsewhere exceed those of getting in just by trying :P

That FoI makes for painful reading -- very few non-Russell group applicants (9 in 4 years!) Surely it's a wasted choice? I appreciate that many are scared off for exactly this reason but unless I considered myself exceptional it must be a waste of time, surely?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MattKneale
That is all true of course, though I wonder if the odds of getting in elsewhere exceed those of getting in just by trying :P

That FoI makes for painful reading -- very few non-Russell group applicants (9 in 4 years!) Surely it's a wasted choice? I appreciate that many are scared off for exactly this reason but unless I considered myself exceptional it must be a waste of time, surely?


It's up to you at the end of the day, good luck with whatever you choose! :biggrin:
Reply 11
Original post by MattKneale
I'll try and get some FoI request from them regarding how many successful applicants are from non-Oxbridge/Russell Group universities. Not gonna hold my breath though!


In my year i think 75% of acceptances were Oxbridge grads, and i gather that is quite consistently true in other years. Please don't take this as gospel as its just my opinion, but i do get the impression they are quite 'snobby' about which uni was graduated from.

On the flip side, the overriding impression i get is that for the grads they really emphasise the research competency side of things. If you think you are strong there and can show that your experience gives you a sound grounding in science and you emphasise the importance of critically analysing primary research in clinical medicine, as well as a keenness to produce some of that research yourself, they are much more likely to see eye to eye with you.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by nexttime
In my year i think 75% of acceptances were Oxbridge grads, and i gather that is quite consistently true in other years. Please don't take this as gospel as its just my opinion, but i do get the impression they are quite 'snobby' about which uni was graduated from.

On the flip side, the overriding impression i get is that for the grads they really emphasise the research competency side of things. If you think you are strong there and can show that your experience gives you a sound grounding in science and you emphasise the importance of critically analysing primary research in clinical medicine, as well as a keenness to produce some of that research yourself, they are much more likely to see eye to eye with you.


Hmm, it's definitely going to take some serious consideration. I do have research experience but whether it's enough to outweigh the non-Russell group status of my University, I don't know. I contributed to a surgical paper and another medical one with a couple of medics but from a microbiology viewpoint. On placement, where I did the research, I also did a fair amount of statistics and analysis of research in that regard, but again, I don't know if that's sufficient.

Don't suppose anyone knows one of the nine non-Russell group entrants from the past four years?? lol
Reply 13
Original post by MattKneale
Hmm, it's definitely going to take some serious consideration. I do have research experience but whether it's enough to outweigh the non-Russell group status of my University, I don't know. I contributed to a surgical paper and another medical one with a couple of medics but from a microbiology viewpoint. On placement, where I did the research, I also did a fair amount of statistics and analysis of research in that regard, but again, I don't know if that's sufficient.

Don't suppose anyone knows one of the nine non-Russell group entrants from the past four years?? lol


Yeah, its hard to quantify how much it would mean.

9 in 4 years is like 10% of intake. I don't know what the proportion of applicants was, but it doesn't strike me as overly-shabby.

I probably do know a couple of them. However, i don't know off the top of my head which uni they all went to, so no idea who they would be!

An foi for applicants for the same period of that foi might shed some light on this issue...
Original post by nexttime
Yeah, its hard to quantify how much it would mean.

9 in 4 years is like 10% of intake. I don't know what the proportion of applicants was, but it doesn't strike me as overly-shabby.

I probably do know a couple of them. However, i don't know off the top of my head which uni they all went to, so no idea who they would be!

An foi for applicants for the same period of that foi might shed some light on this issue...


When did you start your course? I can't remember if you've graduated or are still studying :smile: I'll see how much I can get out them, FoI's get rejected a lot for privacy reasons (even though there aren't any actual privacy reasons, I've found!)
Reply 15
Original post by MattKneale
When did you start your course? I can't remember if you've graduated or are still studying :smile: I'll see how much I can get out them, FoI's get rejected a lot for privacy reasons (even though there aren't any actual privacy reasons, I've found!)


Started 2008. So with the grads that started 2010.

Surely they can't reject a numbers of applicants request for privacy :s-smilie:
Reply 16
Original post by MattKneale
Good stuff; so is it just degree (+ grades that make up your degree) and the BMAT and PS?



Haha, well unless I absolutely flunk my last exams I should get it :smile: Officially jinxed it now.


I don't know about decisions pre interview, but at interview, Oxford don't even know what A levels you have, let alone the grades - in my interviews they asked me about them (subjects, not grades), as they only see the Oxford additional form, not the UCAS.
Original post by bectabex
I don't know about decisions pre interview, but at interview, Oxford don't even know what A levels you have, let alone the grades - in my interviews they asked me about them (subjects, not grades), as they only see the Oxford additional form, not the UCAS.


It appears that's the case with GEM too, since the additional form doesn't contain any information relating to anything prior to tertiary education. I suppose they must still whittle down the applicants by grades before interview, though, so it doesn't affect my worries too much :\

Original post by nexttime
Started 2008. So with the grads that started 2010.

Surely they can't reject a numbers of applicants request for privacy :s-smilie:


Ohh sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah a simple number of applicants shouldn't be too hard to get; on the website it says 2011 had 381 applicants. Their range in the past ten years has been between 220 to 390.
Reply 18
Original post by MattKneale
x


This might sound patronisingly obvious, but have you tried contacting them directly?
Original post by 419
This might sound patronisingly obvious, but have you tried contacting them directly?


I would normally ask about my chances, though they explicitly say on their website:

"No. Please don’t ask us to do this. The decisions about admissions are made at admissions time by a panel of college tutors and faculty tutors, and they work to the selection criteria that are published on this web site. You already have all the information you need to decide whether you are a suitable candidate for the course. We really can’t give advice in advance on individual cases, except (as indicated above) if there is genuine doubt about the suitability of a particular degree."

Except that the selection criteria doesn't always mirror the actual requirements to get on the course in a realistic sense. I'm quite positive I match the minimum requirements -- I'm looking to see if I meet a realistic chance of gaining an interview from my grades.

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