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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    If you're in the nursing profession, the ideal is to save lives, not receive more money for the public service - as long as the employee receives enough money to survive. The NHS is at a large size, this costs money (taxpayers' money), along with the other services. Nurses do a good job but it's ambitious to increase their wages more than needs be as it will be too expensive, and no I don't want tax increases to fund this.

    How long would you want a break for? What do you plan do to in these breaks?

    In the past trade unions pursue special treatment and this is far from being fair. As long as there are no discriminatory laws in place and the workers aren't exploited, then give it a rest.
    I think "go to the toilet" might be one pressing need
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    (Original post by almost_instinct)

    For me, I would introduce proportional representation.
    Probably this.

    Or pass some sort of bill of rights allowing people to say/do whatever they please on the condition they cause no harm to a third party (where said third party can be an animal or the environment as well). Although "harm" can admittedly be a ***** to define.

    Adding critical thinking to the secondary school curriculum couldn't hurt either. Learn about how the press and the government love their cherry picking.
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    Abolish the state. Nothing complicated.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    Probably this.

    Or pass some sort of bill of rights allowing people to say/do whatever they please on the condition they cause no harm to a third party (where said third party can be an animal or the environment as well). Although "harm" can admittedly be a ***** to define.

    Adding critical thinking to the secondary school curriculum couldn't hurt either. Learn about how the press and the government love their cherry picking.
    Who gets to decide what constitutes "harm"?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Who gets to decide what constitutes "harm"?
    An expert panel in full public view over a very long period of time with lots of public input, but a commitment to avoiding a "tyranny of the majority" situation

    As I said it would be a very difficult process and a lot of things would need to be decided on a case by case basis. Porportional representation would be the easier choice
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    An expert panel in full public view over a very long period of time with lots of public input, but a commitment to avoiding a "tyranny of the majority" situation

    As I said it would be a very difficult process and a lot of things would need to be decided on a case by case basis. Porportional representation would be the easier choice
    "An expert panel"? Who gets to decide who is on it? Who gets to decide what constitutes an "expert"?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    U b trolling. Good one.
    No I'm not. Why say that when you can explain how "I b trolling"? I.e. how you disagree with me.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I think "go to the toilet" might be one pressing need
    Or I need a fag.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    "An expert panel"? Who gets to decide who is on it? Who gets to decide what constitutes an "expert"?
    Well I imagine leading academics in the fields of philosophy, economics, politics, law, the sciences and so on are pretty much the closest you will get
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    No I'm not. Why say that when you can explain how "I b trolling"? I.e. how you disagree with me.
    Have a think about why paying minimum wage for a highly skilled job might not be a good idea. Have a think about why exhausted nurses might not be a good idea.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    Well I imagine leading academics in the fields of philosophy, economics, politics, law, the sciences and so on are pretty much the closest you will get
    What are the social and economic influences on becoming a "leading academic"?
    Are politics, law, economics etc ideologically neutral? Or might what view someone has depend on social and economic position?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Have a think about why paying minimum wage for a highly skilled job might not be a good idea. Have a think about why exhausted nurses might not be a good idea.
    When you put it like that!

    But in the real world, nurses enter the profession knowing its a highly demanding job with little pay. So they cannot riot against that as they can find a different career path. I would suspect most nurses are OK with the small pay as long as they have enough to survive and live.

    OK, so if we raise wages of nurses, other professions in the public sector will be next: teachers, policeman, etc. No-one is saying we should lower their wages based on the jobs they do, people in all of those professions are respected, but when it comes from the taxpayers' bank account, I can understand why it is unsustainable. Not to mention the inefficiencies in the public sector.
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    If you think nurse are ok with low pay, you don't know any nurses!
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    If you're in the nursing profession, the ideal is to save lives, not receive more money for the public service - as long as the employee receives enough money to survive. The NHS is at a large size, this costs money (taxpayers' money), along with the other services. Nurses do a good job but it's ambitious to increase their wages more than needs be as it will be too expensive, and no I don't want tax increases to fund this.

    How long would you want a break for? What do you plan do to in these breaks?

    In the past trade unions pursue special treatment and this is far from being fair. As long as there are no discriminatory laws in place and the workers aren't exploited, then give it a rest.

    A 45 minute break a shift in excess of 12 hours is disgraceful. I very much doubt that you've ever worked that hard in your life, it's detrimental to both health and sanity.

    Just because your favourite paper chooses not to report discrimination in the work place, or exploitation of workers, doesn't mean it isn't happening. As middle management I was actively encouraged to pay people under minimum wage, exploit them by cutting breaks here and there, and essentially dance over any working regulations. But nobody wants to hear about that, because there's a law against it, which means it couldn't possibly have happened.

    A large trade union would at least serve to shatter the grip media has on our country. Unless it's worthy of publication, no change will ever occur, even if the law is being broken.
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    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    A 45 minute break a shift in excess of 12 hours is disgraceful. I very much doubt that you've ever worked that hard in your life, it's detrimental to both health and sanity.

    Just because your favourite paper chooses not to report discrimination in the work place, or exploitation of workers, doesn't mean it isn't happening. As middle management I was actively encouraged to pay people under minimum wage, exploit them by cutting breaks here and there, and essentially dance over any working regulations. But nobody wants to hear about that, because there's a law against it, which means it couldn't possibly have happened.

    A large trade union would at least serve to shatter the grip media has on our country. Unless it's worthy of publication, no change will ever occur, even if the law is being broken.
    1. Do you have any evidence about this 45 minute break? I thought Kibalchich was just exaggerating to make a point.
    2. I do not have a favourite newspaper, I occasionally read The Times newspaper, but I retrieve most news from online. Not The Daily Mail. :rolleyes:
    3. Well my idea of exploitation is people being forced to work without any pay, skilled employers should not be paid minimum wage but it depends on demand and supply and who is paying their wages.
    4. No a large trade union would be a terrible idea, they would hold the country to ransom. They may have well-meaning ideas individually and in principle, but in practice they will just push for more and more and damage the economy.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    If you think nurse are ok with low pay, you don't know any nurses!
    Nurses are still being trained and going into and staying in those positions. I'm focusing on why they go into those jobs, not for a high wage, but for helping people.
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    No a large trade union would be a terrible idea, they would hold the country to ransom. They may have well-meaning ideas individually and in principle, but in practice they will just push for more and more and damage the economy.

    I hate the numerical point style of responding. If you can't uphold the eloquence to make your point in a concise conversational form, hold your tongue.


    Well as we've currently got a situation where the voting populace have no say in how the country is run, that would be a good thing. Politicians shouldn't have the power to lie throughout the entire election and completely ignore the populace for a 4 year term.

    Our economy crashed without large trade unions, thanks very much. So you can't get away with blaming it on the selfish working classes any longer.

    Under current administration, the focus is on assimilating an under class of unemployable benefit holders into the working class, at the expense of the working class. With a trade union system, the expense would be at the upper class employers rather than the other way around. This makes perfect sense, because everyone benefits. The only reason this isn't the case is to protect top level employers from investing badly, and not seeing returns.
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    Well my idea of exploitation is people being forced to work without any pay, skilled employers should not be paid minimum wage but it depends on demand and supply and who is paying their wages.
    Wouldn't exploitation include wages being fixed by a monopoly?
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    Nurses are still being trained and going into and staying in those positions. I'm focusing on why they go into those jobs, not for a high wage, but for helping people.
    Sure most people go into the profession to help people and for good honest reasons. That being so surely the deserve fair pay.

    For most it's a vocation, a calling in life to care and help... these sort of people deserve better.

    Just because something is doesn't mean that how it ought to be.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I would do what Jeremy Clarkson said and abolish every single piece of legislation New Labour introduced. Then I'd abolish New Labour just for good measure.
    equal sex laws for homosexuals?
    minimum wage?
    good friday agreement!?
 
 
 
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