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Poverty is no excuse for crime.. Watch

  • View Poll Results: Is the UK to soft on crime
    Yes
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    No
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    (Original post by a729)
    It's about time we got tough on crime and an end to prison been a nice place to live in the eyes of some (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ant-leave.html)


    Why do prisoner's get TVs and so many luxuries which the people who fund this have to struggle to afford?
    There are pensioners who have to choose between eating or heating!

    I think life in prison should be as basic as possible- food enough to live (i.e bread,porridge and water) rather than food to enjoy (i.e steak*)
    Though I think the best way of reducing crime is a mixture of horrible prison life and good rehabilitation

    Poverty is no excuse for crime - in this country no one has to go hungry and no one has to sleep on the streets- the welfare state provides. It normally doesn't allow benefit claimants to have a luxurious lifestyle but it's enough to keep people surviving.

    We shouldn't excuse criminals because they are poor- this is a country where you can succeed if you channel your energy/talent in a LEGAL way.

    Although if you get really successful you could find yourself like Adele thinking : 'after filling out my tax forms ,I felt like shooting someone'
    Essentially the high tax rate for high earners.


    *Some prisons have had to stop serving steak for fears that the bone could be converted onto a weapon, rather than the fact a lot of taxpayers can barely afford steak


    I think all prisoners should be issued with a bill in a similar way to all English students get for going to Uni.

    People who choose to go to Uni have to pay
    People who commit crime don't have to pay financially , perversely they get a totally free ride at the expense of the law abiding


    More spent on prisoner's food than on hospital patients or soldiers?! (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-patients.html)
    Too right. Also enforce 8 hour sweat shops, producing consumer goods that the prison can sell to help fund the place. Alongside this education classes and help in learning a trade, which they then pay a special tax which comes into forcs after they are released and find employment. It gets wiped after 30 years just like graduates.

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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Too right. Also enforce 8 hour sweat shops, producing consumer goods that the prison can sell to help fund the place. Alongside this education classes and help in learning a trade, which they then pay a special tax which comes into forcs after they are released and find employment. It gets wiped after 30 years just like graduates.

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    Thank you- common sense prevails!

    Everyone pays taxes (indirect or directly) except for the criminals who rob and harm the law-abiding
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Explain how I've been homeless 4 of the last 7 years then. Just saying, that safety net has a hell of a lot of holes in it.
    I don't know your personal situation but surely you could stay in hostels provide by your local council

    The safety net is much better than other countries...try living in say Somalia and complaining about holes in the safety net!
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    (Original post by a729)
    I don't know your personal situation but surely you could stay in hostels provide by your local council

    The safety net is much better than other countries...try living in say Somalia and complaining about holes in the safety net!
    I've stayed in many hostels, that's why it isn't 7 of the last 7 years, but I'm not going to talk about my own experiences here.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't appreciate the welfare system we have, but we should also recognize the many holes it does have. Housing is one of the biggest rips in our safety net and saying that nobody has to be homeless in the UK is quite simply not true.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    I've stayed in many hostels, that's why it isn't 7 of the last 7 years, but I'm not going to talk about my own experiences here.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't appreciate the welfare system we have, but we should also recognize the many holes it does have. Housing is one of the biggest rips in our safety net and saying that nobody has to be homeless in the UK is quite simply not true.
    I meant in the sense no one has to sleep on the streets - think of Brazil with it's favelas only feet from multi-million houses
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    (Original post by a729)
    I meant in the sense no one has to sleep on the streets - think of Brazil with it's favelas only feet from multi-million houses
    You make it so sound so easy! Hundreds of homeless in Britain must be kicking themselves that they didn't think to build shelters and homes for themselves out of corrugated iron!

    I can't imagine why people choose to sleep outside in minus 5 weather with just a sleeping bag for warmth. If only those people knew that they could find shelter easily enough.

    *Insert more sarcasm here*
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    You make it so sound so easy! Hundreds of homeless in Britain must be kicking themselves that they didn't think to build shelters and homes for themselves out of corrugated iron!

    I can't imagine why people choose to sleep outside in minus 5 weather with just a sleeping bag for warmth. If only those people knew that they could find shelter easily enough.

    *Insert more sarcasm here*
    You misinterpreted me- I was saying hostels were better than that



    Anyhow high property prices contribute to homelessness (but that's a different argument all together)
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    (Original post by a729)
    I meant in the sense no one has to sleep on the streets - think of Brazil with it's favelas only feet from multi-million houses
    But people do have to sleep on the streets. I've done it for months at a time. In fact I'm working on a project next term looking at the Vagrancy Act 1824, which is the act that makes it illegal to sleep in a public place. Police use this to try and keep homeless people away from areas where they may be seen by the general public most of the time, but they certainly still exist.
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    (Original post by a729)
    You misinterpreted me- I was saying hostels were better than that
    You make it sound so, so easy!
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    What if the prisoners were actually innocent? if you make prisons into ****holes then the people who are wrongly sent there will have their lives ruined for no reason. I find it very ironic that some of the people who oppose the death penalty for this reason still fail to apply it to this as well.
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    (Original post by a729)
    The safety net is much better than other countries...try living in say Somalia and complaining about holes in the safety net!
    Two wrongs don't make a right.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    But people do have to sleep on the streets. I've done it for months at a time. In fact I'm working on a project next term looking at the Vagrancy Act 1824, which is the act that makes it illegal to sleep in a public place. Police use this to try and keep homeless people away from areas where they may be seen by the general public most of the time, but they certainly still exist.
    Bear in mind that everyone's circumstances are different- I'm going to avoid making any sweeping statements...

    but what about this : https://www.gov.uk/emergency-housing-if-homeless
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    (Original post by a729)
    Bear in mind that everyone's circumstances are different- I'm going to avoid making any sweeping statements...

    but what about this : https://www.gov.uk/emergency-housing-if-homeless
    While councils are legally supposed to help you, that isn't the way it works in practice. If you haven't lived in the area you are homeless in for example (or just can't prove that you have lived there) you will not be helped. Ultimately councils do not want to help. They will give immediate help when you're under 18 (I was 16 when I became homeless so I know how much the system changes at your 18th birthday first hand) or are disabled by giving you a place in a B&B or bedsit for a while, but if you're healthy (though I ended up developing mental health and alcohol dependency issues which I blame at least partly on my homelessness) and over 18 the help you are likely to be given is to be put on a waiting list for a hostel. I've been in at least 7 hostels that I can remember (more if you include ones that I've had a temporary place in). Some I've moved on to a more suitable hostel or moved to a different area to study or work. All together though I've found hostels very difficult to maintain accommodation in though. Being poor is very, very expensive. On top housing benefit you're expected to pay a service charge that can range from about £10 a week to £35 a week. Note that as someone who has been homeless for a long time you're likely to be on a reduced amount of benefits due to crisis loans, thus leaving you with very little actual money. One missed jobcentre appointment or one sanction against you (even if the sanction is applied incorrectly as has happened to me several times and you can appeal against it, this still leaves you with no way to pay your service charge for a while) and you find yourself back out on the streets.

    Ultimately you can point to a website saying that there is emergency care available, but in practice this just isn't true. There are plenty of different emergency housing options, but all have their own complications and waiting lists and the time between becoming homeless and finding emergency housing can be anything from a week to half a year.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    While councils are legally supposed to help you, that isn't the way it works in practice. If you haven't lived in the area you are homeless in for example (or just can't prove that you have lived there) you will not be helped. Ultimately councils do not want to help. They will give immediate help when you're under 18 (I was 16 when I became homeless so I know how much the system changes at your 18th birthday first hand) or are disabled by giving you a place in a B&B or bedsit for a while, but if you're healthy (though I ended up developing mental health and alcohol dependency issues which I blame at least partly on my homelessness) and over 18 the help you are likely to be given is to be put on a waiting list for a hostel. I've been in at least 7 hostels that I can remember (more if you include ones that I've had a temporary place in). Some I've moved on to a more suitable hostel or moved to a different area to study or work. All together though I've found hostels very difficult to maintain accommodation in though. Being poor is very, very expensive. On top housing benefit you're expected to pay a service charge that can range from about £10 a week to £35 a week. Note that as someone who has been homeless for a long time you're likely to be on a reduced amount of benefits due to crisis loans, thus leaving you with very little actual money. One missed jobcentre appointment or one sanction against you (even if the sanction is applied incorrectly as has happened to me several times and you can appeal against it, this still leaves you with no way to pay your service charge for a while) and you find yourself back out on the streets.

    Ultimately you can point to a website saying that there is emergency care available, but in practice this just isn't true. There are plenty of different emergency housing options, but all have their own complications and waiting lists and the time between becoming homeless and finding emergency housing can be anything from a week to half a year.

    Hmmm it's said the welfare state fails the needy but finances lazy people who choose not to work
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    You make it sound so, so easy!
    Usain Bolt makes the 100m sound so easy too..
    what's your point?
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    (Original post by a729)
    Usain Bolt makes the 100m sound so easy too..
    what's your point?
    If solving the homeless problem was as easy you think it is, there wouldn't be any people sleeping on the streets. The fact there is indicates getting off the streets is alot harder then you presume it is. People don't sleep outside in freezing conditions because they are lazy. They do so as there is no-one where to go.
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    If solving the homeless problem was as easy you think it is, there wouldn't be any people sleeping on the streets. The fact there is indicates getting off the streets is alot harder then you presume it is. People don't sleep outside in freezing conditions because they are lazy. They do so as there is no-one where to go.
    they do so because most of them are mentally ill

    Claiming housing benefit is not hard

    but if your mentally ill, even getting up and getting out of your psychosis isl ike climbing mount everest
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    it's not an excuse but it is an explanation
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    Human life is never either black or white. The legal system has to reflect this.
    The truth of the matter is that some people are homeless, poor and desperate. It's not an excuse for crime, but it has to be considered as a reason.
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    As far as poverty and gangs go.

    I went to a school in east london, i received the same education as numerous other youths. lots of them received free school meals, my dad paid for my school dinners, after school id go home do my homework eat dinner watch TV go sleep. Im sure anyone who went to my school could do this easily.

    Youths from my school make raps over the internet saying they had a hard life and have to sell weed and grind etc etc.

    How comes i never felt the need to sell weed and buy true religion jeans, what makes me so different to them?
 
 
 
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