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Why are so many people left-wing? Watch

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    (Original post by Barksy)
    People lean to the left due to a lack of understanding in economics and warped morals.

    How the left is still seen as a nice premise still baffles me, given its despotic and murderous tendencies.

    The only saving grace of the left is that it has failed on such a scale that it reminds everyone (sane) not to embrace it.
    It's clear why you have 4 red gems Plus rep.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Hmm but it could be argued that socialism and communism are both cut from the same dirty cloth!
    You've already said exactly this when the thread was originally active, why say it again?

    Really, your hopefull by the rising support for UKIP? They're racist, homophobic and are a bit of a one trick pony.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    People lean to the left due to a lack of understanding in economics and warped morals.

    How the left is still seen as a nice premise still baffles me, given its despotic and murderous tendencies.

    The only saving grace of the left is that it has failed on such a scale that it reminds everyone (sane) not to embrace it.
    I'm sending a rep your way to lool!
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    (Original post by Adam543)

    Really, your hopefull by the rising support for UKIP? They're racist, homophobic and are a bit of a one trick pony.
    Oh please!
    Don't scaremonger!

    They are a good party - the only major one that will really give us a referendum on the EU!
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    (Original post by a729)
    Oh please!
    Don't scaremonger!

    They are a good party - the only major one that will really give us a referendum on the EU!
    Yep, just ignore the comment on dragging up your old thread :rolleyes:

    Scaremonger? One of their senior members said gay people might as well have sex with animals and that most gay people are peadophiles!
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    (Original post by Adam543)
    Yep, just ignore the comment on dragging up your old thread :rolleyes:

    Scaremonger? One of their senior members said gay people might as well have sex with animals and that most gay people are peadophiles!
    One person's mistake doesn't tarnish the whole party does it?

    What about Labour and Diane Abbott- a senior figure who even ran for the leadership in -an admittedly failed bid!

    Sorry - I bumped up the thread to counteract Fullofsurprises thread against right wingers!
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    (Original post by a729)
    One person's mistake doesn't tarnish the whole party does it?

    What about Labour and Diane Abbott- a senior figure who even ran for the leadership in -an admittedly failed bid!

    Sorry - I bumped up the thread to counteract Fullofsurprises thread against right wingers!
    That example was from one person but on their official message boards, which include many senior members there is a lot of homophobic abuse and racism.

    Haha okay fair enough, a balance is needed :P
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    (Original post by ZADS)
    All of those views appear to have come straight out of the Daily Mail or similar, without any critical analysis whatsoever.
    Oh how funny- as soon as a leftie knows they are about to be shown up they bring the old "Daily Mail" rhetoric...... unfortunately for you not everything the DM reports is BS.... so you'll have to think up a new logic for disproving. "The DM said it- so it is wrong" isn't valid reasoning.

    (Original post by ZADS)
    Prison policy - treating prisoners well stops them re-offending. Regardless of how awful it is that prisoners are treated like human beings, it works, so the standard left-wing policy on prisons is to make them places of rehabilitation rather than punishment.
    How on earth has that got ANYTHING to do with the fact of spending more money on prisoner food than hospital patient food? All you have done is ***** on about rehabilitation vs punishment. Do you seriously think criminals will decide to re-offend based upon what is on the prison menu? Jesus- please tell me you're on the dole and not working in a job where lives are dependent on you?!

    (Original post by ZADS)
    The EU makes us far more money in the long run than we put into it, and has other intangible benefits which don't factor into a purely financial calculation, so the left supports it, in general. And there's absolutely no evidence that regulation stifles growth.
    How the hell does the EU make us more money in the long run? We pay X billions to join a club which we could leave and STILL trade with the EU. Or do you think an economic area in recession is going to refuse to trade with the country containing the world's greatest financial city?


    (Original post by ZADS)
    The welfare state is expensive, certainly. But to simply remove it is to let people starve, which is decidedly un-British.
    So if the underclass breed at a greater rate than the working classes- then you're basically going to carry on feeding them until the number of people dependent on the state is larger than those funding it. You are a smart one.....

    (Original post by ZADS)
    There's another alternative, which is to raise the minimum wage to be in line with the living wage, but the right doesn't like that idea (apparently it'll 'stifle growth', just like the introduction of the minimum wage didn't).
    Are you completely stupid? You think decreasing business profits won't decrease growth? What company is going to invest here if they know straight away they will have to pay even higher Labour costs? We aren't talking about Nobel-Prize-in-Economics level of financial knowledge here.....


    (Original post by ZADS)
    And to pre-empt anyone who'd like to rant about families who've not worked in three generations and get a free house and car off the government, living in luxury, this doesn't happen - more evidence-based argument there.
    This doesn't happen? Really? How much would you like to put a bet on that?


    (Original post by ZADS)
    And government spending increases all the time anyway. It always has, in good times and bad. It's an economic fact that things get more expensive. The government's obligations are (rightly) so numerous that spending has to be high.
    Its not about Government spending you moron- its about paying back debt! And why should the Government rightly be so numerous? Do you enjoy taking away responsibility from people? Good old leftie politics removing responsibility from people and ending up with the Chav culture.... very smart idea mate.

    (Original post by ZADS)
    Thatcher was a disaster. A leader who isn't populist to some degree is one without a proper mandate to rule.
    So if the whole country wanted to sit on their backsides and not work- any leader who told them "no" doesn't have a proper mandate to rule? God you're hilarious....

    (Original post by ZADS)
    And finally; The word 'great' in Great Britain doesn't mean 'good', it just serves to differentiate it from Brittany.
    Actually the word "Great" in "Great Britain" does mean "good" because it is the word "Great" which means..... "good".
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    (Original post by Adam543)
    That example was from one person but on their official message boards, which include many senior members there is a lot of homophobic abuse and racism.

    Haha okay fair enough, a balance is needed :P
    I'm sure all parties have their undesirables!
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Oh how funny- as soon as a leftie knows they are about to be shown up they bring the old "Daily Mail" rhetoric...... unfortunately for you not everything the DM reports is BS.... so you'll have to think up a new logic for disproving. "The DM said it- so it is wrong" isn't valid reasoning.


    How on earth has that got ANYTHING to do with the fact of spending more money on prisoner food than hospital patient food? All you have done is ***** on about rehabilitation vs punishment. Do you seriously think criminals will decide to re-offend based upon what is on the prison menu? Jesus- please tell me you're on the dole and not working in a job where lives are dependent on you?!


    How the hell does the EU make us more money in the long run? We pay X billions to join a club which we could leave and STILL trade with the EU. Or do you think an economic area in recession is going to refuse to trade with the country containing the world's greatest financial city?



    So if the underclass breed at a greater rate than the working classes- then you're basically going to carry on feeding them until the number of people dependent on the state is smaller than those relying on it. You are a smart one.....


    Are you completely stupid? You think decreasing business profits won't decrease growth? What company is going to invest here if they know straight away they will have to pay even higher Labour costs? We aren't talking about Nobel-Prize-in-Economics level of financial knowledge here.....



    This doesn't happen? Really? How much would you like to put a bet on that?



    Its not about Government spending you moron- its about paying back debt! And why should the Government rightly be so numerous? Do you enjoy taking away responsibility from people? Good old leftie politics removing responsibility from people and ending up with the Chav culture.... very smart idea mate.


    So if the whole country wanted to sit on their backsides and not work- any leader who told them "no" doesn't have a proper mandate to rule? God you're hilarious....


    Actually the word "Great" in "Great Britain" does mean "good" because it is the word "Great" which means..... "good".
    Well said mate!
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    (Original post by Adam543)
    They're racist, homophobic and are a bit of a one trick pony.
    Source that isn't the Guardian?
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Source that isn't the Guardian?
    Probably Fullofsurprises - I wouldn't be surprised if she worked there lo!
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    False delusion of reality.
    Well said!
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    It's clear why you have 4 red gems Plus rep.
    Because he regularly calls anyone to the left of Reagan a sub-human scumbag?
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    uppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100...
    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay £1.
    The sixth would pay £3.
    The seventh would pay £7..
    The eighth would pay £12.
    The ninth would pay £18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

    So, that's what they decided to do..

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

    "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

    So the first four men were unaffected.

    They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?
    The paying customers?

    How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

    They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they
    subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

    The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).

    The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
    The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).

    The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).

    The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

    "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man.

    He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!"

    "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

    "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

    "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

    The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

    Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

    In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    uppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100...
    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay £1.
    The sixth would pay £3.
    The seventh would pay £7..
    The eighth would pay £12.
    The ninth would pay £18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

    So, that's what they decided to do..

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

    "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

    So the first four men were unaffected.

    They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?
    The paying customers?

    How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

    They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they
    subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

    The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).

    The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
    The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).

    The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).

    The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

    "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man.

    He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!"

    "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

    "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

    "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

    The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

    Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

    In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
    Brilliant!
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    (Original post by alexh42)
    Brilliant!
    On a similar note:

    An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

    The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
    When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

    As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

    To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

    1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

    2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

    3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

    4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

    5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning
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    The USSR was left wing (had many right wing polocies aswell) and killed millions.... so did the right wing nazi government. left/right has nothing to do with murder. basically in a very simplified sense (VERY simplified) left wing is caring for your fellow man, right wing is indulging in your own greed.

    You know that glorious maintinance loan you get from the government? Left wing
    how you dont have to pay tuition fees upfront. left wing
    how if you loose your job, the government helps you out. left wing
    NHS. left wing
    attempt at housing for all. left wing

    Social class gap. right wing
    growth of huge companies who strangle small companies and dodge tax. right wing
    life cycle of getting more and more in debt with corperations in an attempt to buy happyness (house, car etc)

    In the end i see this as left and right wing
    I bought 6 apples. I eat 5.
    Left wing - hey dude, you want my spare apple (and maybe you'll give me something in return at some point in the future)?
    Right wing - hey dude, you want to give me some paper for this apple (so i can give you paper for something in the future)?

    sure you may not get something off them directly in the future, but it all comes round. he will give/sell something to somebody, whom will give/sell something to somebody, whom will give/sell something to somebody... whom will give/sell something to you. My question is, do we really need the middle man of money?
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    And also, in a state WITH money, I'm not against people being richer than others, but do they really need to be THAT much richer than others? there are people with 15 super cars in their garage, with 4 mansions all over the world, I'm not saying they dont deserve them or havnt worked for them, but isnt 15 cars they dont use a bit extravagant, when there are others struggling to keep one going so they can get to and from work?

    (and the rich are rich enough to dodge taxes, sure its not illegal, but it's unethical. It is estimates that if everybody paid the correct taxes, the UK would be out of a ressesion in 3 years (I heard this stat about 2 years ago so i dont know how accurate it is now)
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    Left wing politics goes again human nature. We are material beings who naturally seek to perform the best we can, and reap the benefits of this performance.

    There is a reason why every single communist/extreme socialist system has ended up with an elite class reaping the benefits of exploitation and corruption. The only difference between right wing politics and left wing politics is that in left wing politics, the elite ruling class get rich at the expense of the lower and (almost non-existent) middle class
 
 
 
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