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"White guilt" - If Hitler had descendants, would you put them on a guilt trip? Watch

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    I shall begin by saying that I am of direct African ancestry (so I'm not accused of White Supremacy or racism :rolleyes:).

    Now, I wholly condemn the entire concept of "White guilt"! What people don't seem to understand is that the very concept is condescending and frankly racist to the minorities who supposedly suffered at the hand of European ancestors. It effectively says "Oh, we superior White people are ever so sorry for the pain our superior ancestors caused - here, have a cookie and some cash on us" - almost like a condescending being wallowing in faux benevolence and tacit supremacism.

    In short, would you hold Hitler's grand-child (if he existed) accountable for the actions of Herr Hitler? Would you put the grandchild on a guilt trip for the actions that his father orchestrated?

    Do you not think that this concept of "White guilt" is nonsense? Misguided?

    What do you think?
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    People should not be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers. However, if they perpetuate the same wrongdoing, or ignore or deny their potential complicity in such evil, then I do believe that is a cause for criticism.

    So, if Hitler's grandchild was a raving Aryan supremacist, then of course I'd hold it against him or her. However, if s/he recognised the folly of that belief system, and rejected it outright, then I have no beef. Still, the familial ties mean that such a child can never completely escape the stigma of having a genocidal man for a grandfather.
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    Completely agree! (Though I'm going to add a few reasons other than it being condescending).

    I hate it when people say we should apologise for colonialism thet happened hundreds of years ago to people who are now dead. At best it shows a total lack of understanding of history - what about the 800 years of Ottoman empire and slave trade? Nobody ever apologises for that. Or the Macedonians? Or the Chinese? Or indeed the African tribes that used to take each other slave? We get taught in school that we, as twelve year olds, have something to apologise for, and I think that's wrong. Quite apart from all that, I agree it's patronising, and there's something a little pathetic about it.

    In terms of Hitler's grandchild, of course I wouldn't guilt trip them, but I would try to keep them away from knowing who they were until they were old enough to not be influenced. Five hundred years ago they would have been killed for practical reasons - so that they didn't form a banner for neo-Nazism. Whilst I would never ever do that, it would be something you would have to be aware of.

    One final point: out of interest, do you think we shouldn't be giving out so much foreign aid?
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    i have no doubt that if there were children/grandchildren of hitler around they would be harassed, attacked, blamed, scapegoated and generally live a life of hell... that would be completely wrong of course... but unfortunately there are some incredibly stupid people in the world. same applies to OP.


    edit - lol just realised how that sounded... i'm not calling the OP stupid, i'm saying the people that OP talks of in the thread are stupid!!!
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    From what I've seen, people only tend to go for the 'sins of the forefathers' sort of thing when it suits them, just hypocrisy and externalising blame most of the time.
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    (Original post by Octohedral)
    Completely agree! (Though I'm going to add a few reasons other than it being condescending).

    I hate it when people say we should apologise for colonialism thet happened hundreds of years ago to people who are now dead. At best it shows a total lack of understanding of history - what about the 800 years of Ottoman empire and slave trade? Nobody ever apologises for that. Or the Macedonians? Or the Chinese? Or indeed the African tribes that used to take each other slave? We get taught in school that we, as twelve year olds, have something to apologise for, and I think that's wrong. Quite apart from all that, I agree it's patronising, and there's something a little pathetic about it.

    In terms of Hitler's grandchild, of course I wouldn't guilt trip them, but I would try to keep them away from knowing who they were until they were old enough to not be influenced. Five hundred years ago they would have been killed for practical reasons - so that they didn't form a banner for neo-Nazism. Whilst I would never ever do that, it would be something you would have to be aware of.

    One final point: out of interest, do you think we shouldn't be giving out so much foreign aid?
    Agreed.

    On your question about foreign aid:

    Hm, that is an iffy area. Whilst I don't entirely disagree with foreign aid, I do wholly believe that it is actually not beneficial now. What foreign aid (what I would label as WELFARE) is, is "feeding the poor man a fish and staving off hunger for a day, instead of aiding and teaching the man how to fish in order so that he can provide for himself".

    Foreign aid is essentially creating a strong dependence. This is clearly bad. This is not the way it should be.

    China, on the other hand, is espousing and carrying out the 'doctrine' of "teach a man how to fish and he will never go hungry; feed a man fish and he will not go hungry for a day".

    Whilst there may have been some good intentions in terms of "foreign aid", it has since backfired.

    Having said that, some could argue that there isn't a compelling moral obligation to provide foreign aid to those countries. But, due to the way the African continent for example was exploited, some argue that there is a moral obligation to aid the development of the continent. However, it would be up to the choice of the "perpetrators" on whether they want to aid the countries that their ancestors actually plundered.

    But I still think it wrong to hold offspring accountable for the actions of dead ancestors.
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    Agree, I think when someone is born then everything is reset and they start from a clean slate. Though I'm not sure what I think about the retrospective apologies. John Paul II apologised for loads of things, witchburnings, Galileo etc... obviously he himself didn't do these things, but he represents an organisation that did...I thought it was sort of good to apologise even though I wouldn't hold the man himself responsible for any of it. I don't know what I think about politicians doing the same on behalf of their nation 200 years ago?
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18120890

    Descendants of prominent Nazis have not been persecuted, though the article suggests a dramatic amount of self-flagellation on their part.

    However a descendant of Hitler would certainly be persecuted. He would have to change his name and be covered up.
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    The concept of white guilt is entirely racist.

    On one hand, in the Hitler situation, you would be blaming children for what their ancestors did. Which is of course ridiculous.

    But with white guilt, there exists a blame for an entire race, for the actions of a sub-set of that race. One of the main points of racism, is attributing the actions of a few to the colour of their skin, and blanketing everybody of that color with the same brush.

    The concept of white guilt does not take into account that not all white-dominant countries took part in the slave trade, let alone that not all citizens in that country took part of it.

    The majority of white people today (particularly the eastern and northern europeans) can comfortably say that their ancestors never took part in the slave trade, let alone be blamed for their actions if they did.

    In addition to this, the tone of those who willingly bring white guilt on themselves are deciding that there is an intrinsic difference between them and others based on race. I'm not particularly sure how a black man might feel about someone coming up to them and 'apologizing for slavery', but I can tell you that it would make me feel very uncomfortable if a german apologized for what 'they did' to my family. It would seem to me that they are placing themselves in the same group as those that committed the act, as opposed to acknowledging that it was a group of people, not an entire race.
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    I get pissed off whenever people bring up the British Empire and slavery a) as if the two are exclusive to each other, b) as if the British Empire wasn't the first to ban slavery, c) as if no other country, particularly non-European/non-White countries, every enslaved anyone.
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    People who wollow in the past need to grow up, this country in partiqular is full of that, no wonder so many problems still exist when people keep causing violence and so forth in the name of stuf that happened years ago to generations above them.

    I dont condone the violence and terror people like hitler and his followers caused but I wouldnt hold any german today accountable for it, even if it was a descendent of his, germany is responsible for alot of great things today, mainly automotive imo but its like anywhere,

    Im sure anyone could think of some product or service they use and love that comes from a place descendent from a shady, dodgy or down right evil background, but does it stop you today? no, and so it shouldn't

    stop living in the past people, its a sure fire way to find misery
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    The concept of white guilt is entirely racist.

    On one hand, in the Hitler situation, you would be blaming children for what their ancestors did. Which is of course ridiculous.

    But with white guilt, there exists a blame for an entire race, for the actions of a sub-set of that race. One of the main points of racism, is attributing the actions of a few to the colour of their skin, and blanketing everybody of that color with the same brush.

    The concept of white guilt does not take into account that not all white-dominant countries took part in the slave trade, let alone that not all citizens in that country took part of it.

    The majority of white people today (particularly the eastern and northern europeans) can comfortably say that their ancestors never took part in the slave trade, let alone be blamed for their actions if they did.

    In addition to this, the tone of those who willingly bring white guilt on themselves are deciding that there is an intrinsic difference between them and others based on race. I'm not particularly sure how a black man might feel about someone coming up to them and 'apologizing for slavery', but I can tell you that it would make me feel very uncomfortable if a german apologized for what 'they did' to my family. It would seem to me that they are placing themselves in the same group as those that committed the act, as opposed to acknowledging that it was a group of people, not an entire race.
    Precisely. I fully agree. It is entirely racist, both to white persons and other minorities.
 
 
 
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