Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

Why is socialism seen as a 'nice' philosophy? Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    No, labour in conjunction with land produces the goods and services we require to survive. If there was no land value would be impossible to add, how are you going to grow crops without the terra firma necessary to do it?
    Yes, labour acting on resources. Didn't we go through all this last night?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by danny111)
    Classic chefdave thread.

    What are the drawbacks? You say there are any but don't mention them. Other than the implied drawback being the "right to confiscate my income".
    I suppose some of the major drawbacks of socialism are that it cripples otherwise functioning economies, robs people of their individuals libery and hands all wealth and power up to a ruling vanguard who subsequently live in a state of luxury while the proletariat starve to death on the streets. But other than that it's a perfectly workable body of thought.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Yes, labour acting on resources. Didn't we go through all this last night?
    Judging by your responses apparently not.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Judging by your responses apparently not.
    Hang on, you were agreeing with me last night. You were arguing along the same lines as Marx. I even quoted a couple of passages from Capital to illustrate.

    What changed overnight?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    I suppose some of the major drawbacks of socialism are that it cripples otherwise functioning economies, robs people of their individuals libery and hands all wealth and power up to a ruling vanguard who subsequently live in a state of luxury while the proletariat starve to death on the streets. But other than that it's a perfectly workable body of thought.
    How many people starved in Tsarist Russia?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    How many people starve in contemporary Russia? Currently they have a ruling class of gangsters and people starving in the streets. Yeah, but they're free to starve, ay.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    How many people starved in Tsarist Russia?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Millions I would imagine, that's why we shouldn't power up to ruling elites silly.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Millions I would imagine, that's why we shouldn't power up to ruling elites silly.
    Yeah, I agree.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    I suppose some of the major drawbacks of socialism are that it cripples otherwise functioning economies, robs people of their individuals libery and hands all wealth and power up to a ruling vanguard who subsequently live in a state of luxury while the proletariat starve to death on the streets. But other than that it's a perfectly workable body of thought.
    That's communism, and that is not how it is supposed to be, but how it has ended up as in practice.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Charity can be a nice thing I suppose (I find it a little condescending personally, how would the British like it if Africa took it upon themselves to save us with charity and relief days etc)
    1) We aren't the ones who need 'saving', even if African countries could afford to 'save us'

    2) You appear to have no grasp of the severity of Africa's economic situation. I think you'd find it hard to find any African country who finds our efforts to revitalise their economies and societies in any way 'condescending' and would ,as such, reject our aid on that basis.

    3) Your apparent lack of basic political knowledge leaves your statements on how to run society fairly contentious.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BAXX)
    1) We aren't the ones who need 'saving', even if African countries could afford to 'save us'

    2) You appear to have no grasp of the severity of Africa's economic situation. I think you'd find it hard to find any African country who finds our efforts to revitalise their economies and societies in any way 'condescending' and would ,as such, reject our aid on that basis.

    3) Your apparent lack of basic political knowledge leaves your statements on how to run society fairly contentious.
    You're right, Africa is in no position to offer charity because it's a total basketcase of a continent. The Africans have all the resources they need to make a real go of things: people, land, minerals and the willingness of international firms to invest, but they lack the capacity to utilise these advantages effectively. I'm not sure there's much we can do though, other than offer than continue to offer aid from here until the end of time.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    You're right, Africa is in no position to offer charity because it's a total basketcase of a continent. The Africans have all the resources they need to make a real go of things: people, land, minerals and the willingness of international firms to invest, but they lack the capacity to utilise these advantages effectively. I'm not sure there's much we can do though, other than offer than continue to offer aid from here until the end of time.
    Definitely true. A change is needed in the majority of the continent's corrupted political leadership that thrives on greed and oppression of the public voice.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheHairyArmenian)
    Go talk to some Russians living during the period, especially from Moscow. They saw the USSR as the sh*t; guaranteed work, education and healthcare.

    One particularly disgruntled man I talked to once said the youth cause trouble now because they have no Kosmonol (Young Pioneers) to go to. Go on
    YouTube and search up the Krokodil documentary on VICE if you don't believe me.
    Bull****, anyone with a brain (especially those born in the 60s) would tell you that SU was the ultimate hellhole filled with misery where children died in stampedes for western candy. Trust me, you wouldn't want to live in the SU.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    Bull****, anyone with a brain (especially those born in the 60s) would tell you that SU was the ultimate hellhole filled with misery where children died in stampedes for western candy. Trust me, you wouldn't want to live in the SU.
    What happened to life expectancy after it collapsed?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    What happened to life expectancy after it collapsed?
    It plummeted, but why would you care about your life expectancy if you live in an oppressive and collapsing (in the 80s) joke of an empire? At least the people got to enjoy almost a decade of freedom which was vibrant despite all the crime/destitution. Now millions of them enjoy living standards easily comparable to western europe (especially in moscow) so I don't really see any cause for nostalgia.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    It plummeted, but why would you care about your life expectancy if you live in an oppressive and collapsing (in the 80s) joke of an empire? At least the people got to enjoy almost a decade of freedom which was vibrant despite all the crime/destitution. Now millions of them enjoy living standards easily comparable to western europe (especially in moscow) so I don't really see any cause for nostalgia.
    Ahhhh, yes, "freedom". The freedom to starve in the streets and die earlier while your country is looted by gangsters. Gotta love a bit of "freedom".
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Ahhhh, yes, "freedom". The freedom to starve in the streets and die earlier while your country is looted by gangsters. Gotta love a bit of "freedom".
    Yeah, you can advance that there was a major case of a free-for-all, but the transitional process was inevitable. Plus opportunities were truly abundant, you could build a highly successful business from the ground up if you had the intelligence. It took a bit of manoeuvring but there are loads of cases where people elevated themselves from poverty with few connections or resources.

    Think about it as of the most extreme version of capitalism with the smallest amount of government interference possible, that's as close to freedom as you can get to.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    Yeah, you can advance that there was a major case of a free-for-all, but the transitional process was inevitable. Plus opportunities were truly abundant, you could build a highly successful business from the ground up if you had the intelligence. It took a bit of manoeuvring but there are loads of cases where people elevated themselves from poverty with few connections or resources.

    Think about it as of the most extreme version of capitalism with the smallest amount of government interference possible, that's as close to freedom as you can get to.
    The freedom to starve. The freedom to kill others for your own gain. How do you sleep at night?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    The freedom to starve. The freedom to kill others for your own gain. How do you sleep at night?
    You forgot to mention huge opportunities for almost anyone to become whatever they wanted to become. Sure, most people don't need freedom and would gladly agree to a grinding desk job with mortgages, health insurance and going to identical holidays every year.

    But if you think about it, there is not much purpose or joy in a life like that. Yeah, you'll have kids that will do exactly the same **** job while being exploited by a few rich members of the elite, trapped in the same mortgages and insurances, going to the same places for "holiday", maintaining a good work-life balance (god I love this phrase). They wold never have the opportunities akin to those Russians had in the 90s.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    You forgot to mention huge opportunities for almost anyone to become whatever they wanted to become. Sure, most people don't need freedom and would gladly agree to a grinding desk job with mortgages, health insurance and going to identical holidays every year.

    But if you think about it, there is not much purpose or joy in a life like that. Yeah, you'll have kids that will do exactly the same **** job while being exploited by a few rich members of the elite, trapped in the same mortgages and insurances, going to the same places for "holiday", maintaining a good work-life balance (god I love this phrase). They wold never have the opportunities akin to those Russians had in the 90s.
    what you describe is not freedom, its amorality
 
 
 
Poll
Which web browser do you use?
General election 2017 on TSR
Register to vote

Registering to vote?

Check out our guide for everything you need to know

Manifesto snapshots

Manifesto Snapshots

All you need to know about the 2017 party manifestos

Party Leader questions

Party Leader Q&A

Ask political party leaders your questions

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.