Labour supporting Duncan Smith in defending slave work at Poundland

No, the opposite. When handing jobfare jobs to the private sector, you get that problem. Because you're forcing people to do jobs which normally would be paid.

Whereas if the jobs you force people to do were jobs that were either volunteer jobs, or projects that would no get done anyway, you don't have that problem. What's more, you would be able to get them involved in projects where they would be able to get vital experience. Ideally though, it would be better to just create jobs with a proper wage to give to the unemployed.

Illegal on the grounds that the schemes were "a form of forced, unpaid labour" which is tantamount to 'slave labour' according to the dictionary defintion.

I never used the word "slavery".

That definition that you've found is absolutely terrible and, as I've said, can be applied to any form of labour whatsoever. An employer can say "If you don't do X then I'll fire you".

The problem lies with your misunderstanding of not only what slave labour is, but what the scheme actually involves. High court judges concluded that this isn't slave labour, as the scheme was never actually mandatory in the first place. Regardless of whether or not it's a poor, unfair or badly paid scheme, it's not slave labour as nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

Forced labour and slave labour are very different things, whilst slavery and slave labour are not.

Oh so now 'slave labour' and 'slavery' are the same thing are they?Because slavery doesn't imply ownership at all.

I'm done suffering fools, my participation in this discussion is over.

I didn't claim that they're the same thing, I claimed that they're very similar. Slave labour redirects to slavery on Wikipedia since it's a component of slavery.

Whatever, your argument was weak in the first place since you don't even understand the terms that you're bandying about.

Precisely. The scheme actually opens the door to the re-acceptance of slave conditions and that is no exaggeration - the repeated claims of high Tories that it's "all in the unemployed's best interests" are hokum. Absolutely classic exploitation of the young and of workers - if this was happening in another country in W. Europe, the media would be all over it, calling it a "return to Nazi labour conditions".

Wikipedia, the infallible fount of all knowledge.



Pot. Kettle. Black.

PS: Did you read the 'forced labour' section of the Wikipedia slavery page?

"Forced labor occurs when an individual is forced to work against his or her will, under threat of violence or other punishment. It is also used to describe all types of slavery and may also include institutions not commonly classified as slavery, such as serfdom, conscription and penal labor."

It isn't an exaggeration to say that having to work to earn one's benefits is comparable to being kidnapped, taken overseas, held in captivity and forced to do hard labour? Comparing this to slavery or to Nazi labour camps is utterly ludicrous.

It's a difficult situation but at least they get work experience

In a convenience store?... what great skills.

It isn't an exaggeration to say that having to work to earn one's benefits is comparable to being kidnapped, taken overseas, held in captivity and forced to do hard labour? Comparing this to slavery or to Nazi labour camps is utterly ludicrous.

Wikipedia seems preferable to conjecture.

Yes, I read it. It doesn't back up your point whatso

Clearly explain the difference between slavery and slave labour and I'll succumb to your ignorant, uninformed point of view, Mr. Strawman.

Conjecture? You mean dictionary definitions of appropriate terms, accurate descriptions of what the mandatory work scheme involves and references to relevant court rulings?



I'll ignore your petulant baseless accusations and address the pertinent point. The most poignant differentiation is that slavery implies ownership; slaves can be bought, sold, and traded like commodities. Meanwhile, slave labour is defined as "an individual being forced to work against his or her will, under threat of violence or other punishment." And can "include institutions not commonly classified as slavery, such as serfdom, conscription and penal labor." In other words, one need not be a slave to be carry out slave labour.

Right, so you think that the people in question are working under "serfdom, conscription or penal labour"?

According to the Macmillan dictionary, slave labour is "hard work that is done by people who are forced to work for no money or for very little money". Stacking shelves in poundland is not hard in any possible sense of the word.

Right, so you think that the people in question are working under "serfdom, conscription or penal labour"? Taken from another dictionary, slave labour is "Using slaves to do work".
You keep referring to how Slavery implies ownership - the term "slave labour" implies many things that aren't true of what the people in question are being forced to do. According to the Macmillan dictionary, slave labour is "hard work that is done by people who are forced to work for no money or for very little money". Stacking shelves in poundland is not hard in any possible sense of the word.

Oh for God's sake, no, that's not what I said, inferred or implied. You asked me to clearly explain the difference between slavery and slave labour, which I did. The examples given merely demonstrate that one need not be a slave to carry out slave labour.



The term 'hard work' is subjective; to a physically unfit 55 year old job seeker, being on their feet stacking shelves all day and having to lift relatively heavy stock, could well be defined as 'hard work'. Other than this extremely tenuous and pedantic issue the rest of the definition "..work that is done by people who are forced to work for no money or for very little money" fits precisely with what the mandatory work scheme entails.

So being made to work for below minimum wage doesn't ring some bells there?

Work for less than minimum wage or starve as the whiff of forced labour about it, while not actually being slavery.