Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

Pope Francis thinks Falklands belong to Argentina Watch

    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think a lot are fairly neutral and unbothered by it all, so they kind of allow Argentina to rant on and resist the temptation to call it for what it is, purely for diplomatic reasons. Some of it is just relief that Argentina no longer has a fascist government, so they are concerned not to rock the boat too much for Kirchner. I also think some of the male politicians have been a little bit keen on her, judging from reports!
    Haha, Silvio certainly had his eye on her!

    There's cynicism on both sides - that's why Galloway's banging on about it, as he dislikes the cynicism of Tory politicians using it for nationalist vote appeal - it's just a shame that he can't come out and say that, instead of always relying on political games of absurdity himself - although being a regular player of the media, perhaps he comes out with the more extreme stuff to ensure he gets airtime.

    The oil thing appears to have been overstated (so far) but doubtless if the price of energy continues to rise inexorably, the most remote and difficult fields will become more and more possible, so the long-term plays of both governments dominate thinking.

    Also let's never forget that the sovereignty of the Falklands was under discussion before the invasion - as some kind of dubious 'leaseback' arrangement. This and the withdrawal of British naval forces were what emboldened Galtieri in his absurd and nationalistic venture.
    With the utmost respect, I wouldn't necessarily say it was an absurd gamble from Galtieri's point of view. The Falkland's conflict was a very close thing for a while and if they had set the fuses on their bombs properly, the outcome might have been very different.


    Let's also not forget that he was further encouraged by US diplomacy in the region and their relentless toadying to neo-fascist and outright fascist governments in Latin America under the supposed guise of suppressing the Communist threat. People shouldn't go all dewy eyed about the commitment of the UK government towards the right of self-determination - as HMG were previously quite happy to discuss shared sovereignty, something the islanders never wanted.
    That is very true. It would be interesting to see what lengths they would go to to protect, say, St. Helena if it were threatened which unlike the Falklands and Gibralter don't have resources or strategic advantages (arguably the Falklands has both and is also a staging point on the way to Antarctica if the day ever comes when people start prospecting down there).

    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thomas2)
    Haha, Silvio certainly had his eye on her!
    Lol, he must have proposed marriage several times, she probably didn't like the sound of his Bunga-Bunga.

    (Original post by Thomas2)
    With the utmost respect, I wouldn't necessarily say it was an absurd gamble from Galtieri's point of view. The Falkland's conflict was a very close thing for a while and if they had set the fuses on their bombs properly, the outcome might have been very different.
    Yeah, that's why I didn't call it an "absurd gamble", but an "absurd venture" - it was absurd, it belonged to the 1930s - the only really bizarre thing was that the US didn't immediately respond to it and call it for what it was.

    (Original post by Thomas2)
    That is very true. It would be interesting to see what lengths they would go to to protect, say, St. Helena if it were threatened which unlike the Falklands and Gibralter don't have resources or strategic advantages (arguably the Falklands has both and is also a staging point on the way to Antarctica if the day ever comes when people start prospecting down there).

    Spot on about the 'staging post' thing, I think that's at the heart of it, also of course it continues to play a useful role in securing support for embattled governments in BA. I remember reading that a former British Ambassador to Argentina said he didn't need to read about the economic news in the country - he just listened out for mentions of 'Las Malvinas'. Lots of mentions = economy in trouble, time for the government to distract public attention.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I should think most things in China "grow", I mean, just through the natural growth of the population? I doubt that it's stellar, but maybe the government there oppressing it helps - people often are attracted to things that are suppressed.
    I'm not an expert of the details but a brief google search reveals, inter alia, the following articles:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11020947

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e-christianity

    It would seem it's at least tolerated by the communist party now ...
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    The Falkland Islands belongs to the people who live there. Not the UK and not Argentina. They wan't to stay part of the UK and that is their choice to make.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thomas2)
    I'm not an expert of the details but a brief google search reveals, inter alia, the following articles:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11020947

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e-christianity

    It would seem it's at least tolerated by the communist party now ...
    Thanks for those, I've read things like this before, but the Guardian article from two years ago was interesting, sounds like a drive to 'nationalise' Christianity, that has happened before in other territories. I know there is still a dispute between the Vatican and China about the right of the Vat to appoint Bishops and Cardinals and I also heard on CCTV Dialogue not long ago that the CCP are in discussions with the Vat over that, so maybe they will resolve that too.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by redferry)
    The Falkland Islands belongs to the people who live there. Not the UK and not Argentina. They wan't to stay part of the UK and that is their choice to make.
    I agree!! In the end they should make their own country and everybody would be annoyed except the inhabitants!!!
    If scotland can become separated, then falklands should to
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nikkoch)
    I agree!! In the end they should make their own country and everybody would be annoyed except the inhabitants!!!
    If scotland can become separated, then falklands should to
    I'm not sure they have the capacity to be independent to be honest, they have a tiny population.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by redferry)
    I'm not sure they have the capacity to be independent to be honest, they have a tiny population.
    Also the UK wouldn't allow it, partly because of national interest (not all of the defence of the Falklands has been about the people who live there - at least part of it, as discussed above, is about energy supplies and strategic interests) and partly because it would be leaving the islanders much more vulnerable to takeover attempts by Argentina.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Also the UK wouldn't allow it, partly because of national interest (not all of the defence of the Falklands has been about the people who live there - at least part of it, as discussed above, is about energy supplies and strategic interests) and partly because it would be leaving the islanders much more vulnerable to takeover attempts by Argentina.
    Yeah to be fair the islanders aren't idiots, they wouldn't want to be independent as Argentina would be right there.

    Thing is the prelim oil searches found waaaaaay less than they were expecting.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Lol, he must have proposed marriage several times, she probably didn't like the sound of his Bunga-Bunga.
    Sounds about right!


    Spot on about the 'staging post' thing, I think that's at the heart of it, also of course it continues to play a useful role in securing support for embattled governments in BA. I remember reading that a former British Ambassador to Argentina said he didn't need to read about the economic news in the country - he just listened out for mentions of 'Las Malvinas'. Lots of mentions = economy in trouble, time for the government to distract public attention.
    There was a time when Britain was quite popular in Argentina - partly due to the fact that a 19th century prime minister George Canning played an instrumental role in recognising Argentina's independence. Someone told me you can still see stautues of him in some of the squares. It was also once fashionable to speak English in high society in BA.

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Also the UK wouldn't allow it, partly because of national interest (not all of the defence of the Falklands has been about the people who live there - at least part of it, as discussed above, is about energy supplies and strategic interests) and partly because it would be leaving the islanders much more vulnerable to takeover attempts by Argentina.
    They could become an independent country under free association with the UK. Similar to the USA's relationship with Palau and Micronesia. The UK would still provide their defence, but they would be a sovereign country potentially with representation in the UN. And possibly in return for defence, the UK gets a share of revenue from their energy supplies.

    Of course I'm sure that wouldn't make Argentina shut up. But at least then they'd have no choice but to talk to the Falklands government directly rather that ignoring their existence.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Psyk)
    They could become an independent country under free association with the UK. Similar to the USA's relationship with Palau and Micronesia. The UK would still provide their defence, but they would be a sovereign country potentially with representation in the UN. And possibly in return for defence, the UK gets a share of revenue from their energy supplies.

    Of course I'm sure that wouldn't make Argentina shut up. But at least then they'd have no choice but to talk to the Falklands government directly rather that ignoring their existence.
    Sure, there are different flavours of 'independence', I was making a general observation; in reality, whatever happens, the UK are certain to be underwriting their defence, although over time that is going to become increasingly difficult given the wide-ranging retraction of UK military capabilities.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thomas2)
    Sounds about right!

    There was a time when Britain was quite popular in Argentina - partly due to the fact that a 19th century prime minister George Canning played an instrumental role in recognising Argentina's independence. Someone told me you can still see stautues of him in some of the squares. It was also once fashionable to speak English in high society in BA.

    When I was there about 5 years ago with my parents, we met with nothing but friendliness - despite all the hooha that their government likes to try to whip up on this subject and the war, I don't get the impression of fierce anti-Britishness there. I think Argentina is a country that has had profound economic difficulties for a very long time and bitter internal class and political struggles - it isn't really surprising that governments there would reach for any external 'enemy' they can think of to try to focus public attention away from their woes.

    It was depressing to me that the Cardinal joined in with it though, someone like him, a Jesuit scholar and (what sounds like) a fairly good and intelligent man, should really do better than to side with such petty nationalism. However, church leaders here face the same kinds of difficulties when they go up against majority views.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    When I was there about 5 years ago with my parents, we met with nothing but friendliness - despite all the hooha that their government likes to try to whip up on this subject and the war, I don't get the impression of fierce anti-Britishness there. I think Argentina is a country that has had profound economic difficulties for a very long time and bitter internal class and political struggles - it isn't really surprising that governments there would reach for any external 'enemy' they can think of to try to focus public attention away from their woes.

    It was depressing to me that the Cardinal joined in with it though, someone like him, a Jesuit scholar and (what sounds like) a fairly good and intelligent man, should really do better than to side with such petty nationalism. However, church leaders here face the same kinds of difficulties when they go up against majority views.
    Cool. Yeah, apparently that's why traditional tango music sounds a bit sad but there were days when they were in a good mood and danced milonga and vals. Did you go to the Welsh villages in Patagonia?

    To be fair, I can see why some Argenitines might feel that they somehow got cheated out of the islands.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thomas2)
    Cool. Yeah, apparently that's why traditional tango music sounds a bit sad but there were days when they were in a good mood and danced milonga and vals. Did you go to the Welsh villages in Patagonia?

    To be fair, I can see why some Argenitines might feel that they somehow got cheated out of the islands.
    Nope, just in BA - which is a lovely city by the way.

    They've been subjected to such a wave of wierd and wonderful propaganda on a range of issues over the last 100 years that it's amazing how they've managed to keep any proportion. The mad enthusiasm for the ludicrous Evita being only one of their many delusions.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Nope, just in BA - which is a lovely city by the way.

    They've been subjected to such a wave of wierd and wonderful propaganda on a range of issues over the last 100 years that it's amazing how they've managed to keep any proportion. The mad enthusiasm for the ludicrous Evita being only one of their many delusions.
    Haha, it's a crazy world.

    The descamasados must have felt she had something to offer them.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Doesn't really add much weight to the Argentinian's argument. In terms of magical support, I'd much rather have Santa on my side.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thomas2)
    Haha, it's a crazy world.

    The descamasados must have felt she had something to offer them.
    Well, in almost all parts of Latin America, the history has been that of a dispossessed landless poor and the rich oligarchical landowners and their political representatives - Argentina was no exception. When the vote spread, the poor were very under-informed and poorly educated and easy prey for fascistic governments and charismatic charlatans in all of the nascent democracies.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Well, in almost all parts of Latin America, the history has been that of a dispossessed landless poor and the rich oligarchical landowners and their political representatives - Argentina was no exception. When the vote spread, the poor were very under-informed and poorly educated and easy prey for fascistic governments and charismatic charlatans in all of the nascent democracies.
    Well, unlike in Europe where democracy developed gradually and the franchise expanded very slowly over centuries it all happened very suddenly in Latin America and also in Africa after decolonisation and hence the corruption. I'm also presuming they didn't have the same checks and balances that constitutions such as the U.S. Constitution have to hold executive power in check.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fastswift)
    Pope Francis appointment gives Argentina hope in Falklands dispute

    http://gu.com/p/3eede

    Falklands belong to the UK!

    Do you think his appointment really gives up to Argentina on the Falklands dispute?

    Personally, as a Catholic, I think he is wrong. Falklands belong to the UK!
    Off topic but have you seen the Catholic society on TSR?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 7, 2013
Poll
Which pet is the best?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.