Celtic or Rangers for an Englishman?

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Castro1888
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#61
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#61
******** Rangers openly discriminated against half the population of Glasgow for almost a century by refusing to sign a catholic player.
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Finn_hudson
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#62
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#62
Hey Bro sorry but i have to disagree with u Celtic aw the way.
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janedoe94
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#63
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#63
Celtic do not have a better reputation in Holland than rangers. The divide between the two clubs comes from a Dutch protestant king (King William of Orange) invading the UK and Ireland in the 1600's and overthrowing the last Catholic monarch in Britain. Rangers indoctrinated orange as one of their colours in the 90's because they had so many dutch players, a dutch manager, as well as their roots coming from historical dutch heritage. Both clubs are bitter rivals and as bad as each other. It all stems from deep rooted, long lasting sectarianism in Scotland going back to to the conception of the Church of Scotland in 1506 that is unfortunately engrained in (especially western Scotland's) heritage and culture. Celtic fans have a generic dislike and hatred towards the union and the UK, consider themselves an Irish club - show solidarity with the Irish Republic and the Irish Republican Army - due to hundreds of years of second class citizenship and segregation based on their faith as Roman Catholics. Rangers fans have a generic, blind loyalty towards the Union and the UK. Football in Scotland is more of a tribal nature than anywhere else in the world and not something you can understand unless you are indoctrinated into it. However, to assume one set of fans are worse than the other makes you just as much of a bigot as those you assume to criticise. Football is a sport, but in Glasgow its an identity which continues to divide people and infuse hatred. However, despite the deep-rooted, bitter rivalry, both clubs have admiration and respect for one and other, neither would hold the gravitas they do without it.
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bamup
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Castro1888)
******** Rangers openly discriminated against half the population of Glasgow for almost a century by refusing to sign a catholic player.
Celtic are openly intolerant of the whole of the UK. Your reference is 30 years old and irrelevant. Celtic fans through bananas at Mark Walters that same era, does that make them all racist today? - no.
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Zürich
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#65
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#65
99% of Dutch people do not give a damn and see Celtic/Rangers as Scottish clubs. But it is weird to see Rangers fans starting some beery embrace of a Dutchman and rant incoherently about King Billy, as has happened to me a few times.
(Original post by janedoe94)
Celtic do not have a better reputation in Holland than rangers. The divide between the two clubs comes from a Dutch protestant king (King William of Orange) invading the UK and Ireland in the 1600's and overthrowing the last Catholic monarch in Britain. Rangers indoctrinated orange as one of their colours in the 90's because they had so many dutch players, a dutch manager, as well as their roots coming from historical dutch heritage. Both clubs are bitter rivals and as bad as each other. It all stems from deep rooted, long lasting sectarianism in Scotland going back to to the conception of the Church of Scotland in 1506 that is unfortunately engrained in (especially western Scotland's) heritage and culture. Celtic fans have a generic dislike and hatred towards the union and the UK, consider themselves an Irish club - show solidarity with the Irish Republic and the Irish Republican Army - due to hundreds of years of second class citizenship and segregation based on their faith as Roman Catholics. Rangers fans have a generic, blind loyalty towards the Union and the UK. Football in Scotland is more of a tribal nature than anywhere else in the world and not something you can understand unless you are indoctrinated into it. However, to assume one set of fans are worse than the other makes you just as much of a bigot as those you assume to criticise. Football is a sport, but in Glasgow its an identity which continues to divide people and infuse hatred. However, despite the deep-rooted, bitter rivalry, both clubs have admiration and respect for one and other, neither would hold the gravitas they do without it.
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michael5455
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#66
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#66
Celtic supporter here, honestly if you're English and have no connection and understanding of the culture and difference between the two clubs, don't "pick one". Football teams aren't chosen in Scotland, they are given to you, which regrettably does bring a lot of hatred with it but also adds to the deep connection we have to football in Scotland. Both sides have bad aspects (Celtic chant IRA while Rangers chant UVF) but everyone has to understand that one teams supporters aren't "worse" than the other, both sides have bad supporters associated with them but being a supporter of one of these teams doesn't automatically mean you agree with everything that is chanted at the matches. Just stick to yer premier league teams, it's better quality football anyway.
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MKGraeme
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#67
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#67
Sorry but I have to correct you. Celtic are a team known as multi cultural from the foundations. Celtic are not pro republicans they are a Scottish team with Irish background. Rangers are anti-catholic not unionists. Rangers had a no Catholic employment policy until 1989 when they signed Mo Johnstone a Roman Catholic. Read the history of both teams, very interesting.
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BD93xx
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#68
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#68
You are correct, the foundations of Celtic were based on a very positive, inclusive ideology - for people who were generally oppressed based on their religion and heritage. Three years after mo Johnston signed for rangers (from Celtic) Mark Walters was racially abused by Celtic fans during an old firm at Celtic park for being black - by throwing banana onto the pitch. Neither set of fans are any better or worse than the other. Both have very dark and embarrassing parts of their history - neither are what they were during the late 80’s early 90’s. Being from Glasgow, being a rangers fan, my mum was from a traditionally catholic part of Glasgow; while my dad was raised Protestant. I have no animosity towards Celtic or their fans; and in fact appreciate the rivalry. Neither club would be who they were, as successful as they are, or as world wide renowned, without the other. For you to say rangers are anti-catholic, and by default - sectarian, in-fact makes you ignorant and bigoted. You should attend both Ibrox and Celtic park - you may learn something 😬
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username2950448
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#69
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#69
Always preferred Celtic.

RIP Bobby Sands and Free Palestine.
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gjd800
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#70
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#70
I don't really care but I suppose have more in common with Celtic 'politically', and my locals are always full of Celtic shirts :laugh:
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BD93xx
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#71
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#71
(Original post by gjd800)
I don't really care but I suppose have more in common with Celtic 'politically', and my locals are always full of Celtic shirts :laugh:
What “political” similarities do you have with Celtic ?
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gjd800
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#72
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#72
(Original post by BD93xx)
What “political” similarities do you have with Celtic ?
You don't need to ask, you already know
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BD93xx
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#73
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#73
The fact you consider your support of either teams a “preference” tells me you’ve never been to support Celtic or attend an old firm

(Original post by Palmyra)
Always preferred Celtic.

RIP Bobby Sands and Free Palestine.
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markova21
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#74
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#74
Celtic for me, always. But I was brought up in the Old Trafford/Stretford area of Manchester at a time when the vast majority of people living there were Irish or of Irish descent, my surname is O'Brien, my grandparents were from County Offaly and I now live in Ireland myself. BTW, there's an interesting book; a good few years old now, called Manchester United- The Irish Connection.
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Hunky Doug
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#75
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#75
Just drop n e-mail to UEFA paedo bhoy and they will confirm the crap that you write is indeed that CRAP!You have mentioned in your fable story a player named Gary Naismith, he has never played for Glasgow Rangers for your information, you are indeed one numptie! I remember well in the eighties you vermin "Dirty English [email protected]", shower of anti English/British vermin!
Last edited by Hunky Doug; 1 year ago
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MKGraeme
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#76
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#76
(Original post by BD93xx)
You are correct, the foundations of Celtic were based on a very positive, inclusive ideology - for people who were generally oppressed based on their religion and heritage. Three years after mo Johnston signed for rangers (from Celtic) Mark Walters was racially abused by Celtic fans during an old firm at Celtic park for being black - by throwing banana onto the pitch. Neither set of fans are any better or worse than the other. Both have very dark and embarrassing parts of their history - neither are what they were during the late 80’s early 90’s. Being from Glasgow, being a rangers fan, my mum was from a traditionally catholic part of Glasgow; while my dad was raised Protestant. I have no animosity towards Celtic or their fans; and in fact appreciate the rivalry. Neither club would be who they were, as successful as they are, or as world wide renowned, without the other. For you to say rangers are anti-catholic, and by default - sectarian, in-fact makes you ignorant and bigoted. You should attend both Ibrox and Celtic park - you may learn something 😬
Hi thanks for your message. I'm a Glaswegian myself. My father's family is Catholic and my mother's is protestant. I myself have been through anti-catholic sectarianism first hand and due to this I moved down south. Like yourself I take no sides as the hole situation is past ironic/ignorance due to mindless idiot will hurt each other for religion they don't practise. I was brought up a Catholic but had to attend a protestant secondary school and was put through a humiliation for 4 years and this wasn't banter my friend. So a bigot I ain't I have lived through all the secterian bull****. As for racism a Celtic player called Paul Elliot got put through the same racism as the players you mention this is due to the fact Scottish people were quite racist when I was growing up. I come from a place in Glasgow called Drumchapel and there was only 4 black people I knew and both sides, Catholic and Protestant gave those poor people a really hard time so I think racism on that part is a social problem. I would like it if you can take back the "fact" that I'm a bigot please.
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MKGraeme
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#77
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(Original post by Hunky Doug)
Just drop n e-mail to UEFA paedo bhoy and they will confirm the crap that you write is indeed that CRAP!You have mentioned in your fable story a player named Gary Naismith, he has never played for Glasgow Rangers for your information, you are indeed one numptie! I remember well in the eighties you vermin "Dirty English [email protected]", shower of anti English/British vermin!
Your a complete numpty. Peado, is that what your intelligence can reach. Rangers have had there share of kid fiddler's in the past, grow up. Anti - English, wake up mate. The orange walk still sings anti-catholic crap, there for keeping up the hole secterian bull**** and I must admit there is still a Element of IRA loving **** heads at Celtic, fishbowl life mate.
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Bentsfort
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#78
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You are not aware that northern English football clubs in the 19th century were always based on Scottish footballer, the ‘Scottish Professors’, as the English called them. The rise of English football rose slowly as English players took places in more generic teams, until the 70s, when the Scots faded away, to be replaced by the rest of the World!
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DJKL
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#79
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(Original post by Bentsfort)
You are not aware that northern English football clubs in the 19th century were always based on Scottish footballer, the ‘Scottish Professors’, as the English called them. The rise of English football rose slowly as English players took places in more generic teams, until the 70s, when the Scots faded away, to be replaced by the rest of the World!
Certainly Leeds and Man United always seemed to have a few Scottish Players in the 1970s and 1980s- Macarai, Strachan, Bremner, McClair, McAllister and of course Liverpool had Hansen,Dalgleish, Souness, and no doubt there are loads more that I now cannot recall. The Scots did tend to be fewer the further south one got, Nicholas to Arsenal, Nevin at Chelsea etc.

You also of course got Big Dunc.

The reduction of the Scottish impact does seem to go hand in hand with the reduction of street football up here, in fact even park football is less frequent, I live near a large park which in the 70s/80s would have been full of kids playing in an endless game on a pitch marked out by jerseys, these days there is rarely anyone playing.

Edit-forgot McQueen,Leighton, Jordan and of course slightly earlier Law.
Last edited by DJKL; 1 year ago
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DJKL
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#80
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Maybe easier to look at the 1974 World Cup squad-

1 GK David Harvey 7 February 1948 (aged 26) 7 England Leeds United
2 DF Sandy Jardine 31 December 1948 (aged 25) 16 Scotland Rangers
3 DF Danny McGrain 1 May 1950 (aged 24) 12 Scotland Celtic
4 MF Billy Bremner (c) 9 December 1942 (aged 31) 48 England Leeds United
5 DF Jim Holton 11 April 1951 (aged 23) 11 England Manchester United
6 DF John Blackley 12 May 1948 (aged 26) 3 Scotland Hibernian
7 MF Jimmy Johnstone 30 September 1944 (aged 29) 21 Scotland Celtic
8 FW Kenny Dalglish 4 March 1951 (aged 23) 19 Scotland Celtic
9 FW Joe Jordan 15 December 1951 (aged 22) 11 England Leeds United
10 MF David Hay 29 January 1948 (aged 26) 24 Scotland Celtic
11 FW Peter Lorimer 14 December 1946 (aged 27) 14 England Leeds United
12 GK Thomson Allan 5 October 1946 (aged 27) 2 Scotland Dundee
13 GK Jim Stewart 9 March 1954 (aged 20) 0 Scotland Kilmarnock
14 DF Martin Buchan 6 March 1949 (aged 25) 13 England Manchester United
15 MF Peter Cormack 17 July 1946 (aged 27) 9 England Liverpool
16 DF Willie Donachie 5 October 1951 (aged 22) 11 England Manchester City
17 MF Donald Ford 25 October 1944 (aged 29) 3 Scotland Hearts
18 MF Tommy Hutchison 22 September 1947 (aged 26) 8 England Coventry City
19 FW Denis Law 24 February 1940 (aged 34) 54 England Manchester City
20 FW Willie Morgan 2 October 1944 (aged 29) 19 England Manchester United
21 DF Gordon McQueen 26 June 1952 (aged 21) 1 England Leeds United
22 DF Erich Schaedler 6 August 1949 (aged 24) 1 Scotland Hibernia

Or 1978:

1 GK Alan Rough 25 November 1951 (aged 26) 18 Scotland Partick Thistle
2 DF Sandy Jardine 31 December 1948 (aged 29) 33 Scotland Rangers
3 DF Willie Donachie 5 October 1951 (aged 26) 30 England Manchester City
4 DF Martin Buchan 6 March 1949 (aged 29) 28 England Manchester United
5 DF Gordon McQueen 26 June 1952 (aged 25) 20 England Manchester United
6 MF Bruce Rioch (c) 6 September 1947 (aged 30) 22 England Derby County
7 MF Don Masson 26 August 1946 (aged 31) 16 England Derby County
8 FW Kenny Dalglish 4 March 1951 (aged 27) 54 England Liverpool
9 FW Joe Jordan 15 December 1951 (aged 26) 30 England Manchester United
10 MF Asa Hartford 24 October 1950 (aged 27) 24 England Manchester City
11 MF Willie Johnston 19 December 1946 (aged 31) 21 England West Bromwich Albion
12 GK Jim Blyth 2 February 1955 (aged 23) 2 England Coventry City
13 DF Stuart Kennedy 31 May 1953 (aged 25) 3 Scotland Aberdeen
14 DF Tom Forsyth 23 January 1949 (aged 29) 19 Scotland Rangers
15 MF Archie Gemmill 24 March 1947 (aged 31) 26 England Nottingham Forest
16 FW Lou Macari 7 June 1949 (aged 28) 22 England Manchester United
17 FW Derek Johnstone 4 November 1953 (aged 24) 13 Scotland Rangers
18 MF Graeme Souness 6 May 1953 (aged 25) 6 England Liverpool
19 FW John Robertson 20 January 1953 (aged 25) 2 England Nottingham Forest
20 GK Bobby Clark 26 September 1945 (aged 32) 17 Scotland Aberdeen
21 FW Joe Harper 11 January 1948 (aged 30) 3 Scotland Aberdeen
22 DF Kenny Burns 23 September 1953 (aged 24) 11 England Nottingham Forest

Daft number of Anglos playing at decent clubs and whilst not all club star players mainly decent quality- cannot really do this now as we never get to tournaments, but even if we did the Anglos are in the main squad players, though Tierney to Arsenal and McGinn at Villa and of course Roberson at Liverpool and McTominie at United help- we just need a couple of really good Scottish strikers playing regularly for some of the top ten clubs (well that and some centre halfs and a couple more midfielders)
Last edited by DJKL; 1 year ago
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