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  • View Poll Results: Should we cut welfare spending?
    Yes
    210
    56.30%
    Leave it as it is
    82
    21.98%
    No-increase welfare spending
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    21.72%

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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    You agreed with me that you want jobs created. That means paying at least minimum wage.

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    Benefits already pay that. I wouldn't pay on top of benefits. It would be a requirement of claiming the benefit that you made yourself available for work if asked.
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    (Original post by a729)
    How dare you! I will refrain from insulting you- I refuse to stoop to that level

    For this lady it certainly is : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-trashed.html
    That lady doesn't represent every single person on benefits.
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    (Original post by trianglehate)
    You say people shouldn't be encouraged to depend on the government, but surely most things in the UK are government controlled? The NHS, our education system, housing etc. This isn't the USA where we pay for private healthcare, but this is why we pay taxes to use such services.

    I agree with you that incentives such as EMA were being misused, but it was wrong of the Conservatives to completely abolish it. People genuinely relied on that money for educational purposes and another incentive should have been put in place. For people to not be so dependent on the government, more needs to be done to get those who are perfectly able to work, in employment. There are far too many people who are unemployed when they could be working. But the government has allowed for this to happen, as many people say 'I'm better of on benefits than going out to work 30 hours a week.'
    What could the government have introduced instead of EMA?

    We already pay for taxes for that but welfare spending is much larger than healthcare spending ..
    Why should the government pay people to stay in school when millions around the world are denied that opportunity as they have to pay for it - soon it will be compulsory to stay in education till 18

    (Original post by trianglehate)
    It's not so much the fact of HAVING to increase jobs, there are plenty of jobs available. It's the fact of British citizens thinking they're too good to be, let's say for example, a cleaner.
    How out of touch are you? graduates are there fighting for the same jobs as the working class
    People are scrambling for jobs! There are cases of 30,000 people applying for only 300 posts at TfL

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18627327
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    (Original post by ~Duke)
    What part of it doesn't make sense to you?

    Common, put a little thought into your responses so I can understand where you stand and perhaps present my views pragmatically and in easier language if you need me to. Your one-liners though erudite in the Labour party aren't helping encourage discussion on the topic at hand.
    I literally have nothing to say when faced with such hatred of the poor.
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    (Original post by a729)
    That's unethical too say the least... you're joking right?
    I didn't say the solution was ethical. But when there is no solution it starts to make people think about these types of things. Not only would there be no offspring to scrounge of the taxpayer but also there wouldn't be any teenagers growing up, those teenagers can cause other people grief in public because of their poor upbringing. This includes stealing, assault etc. Are ethics really worth it when it's diminishing everybody's quality of life and their physical safety as well?

    Not saying I 100% endorse the idea, but it's food for thought.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Perhaps Duke is no pseudonym. Probably has a Victorian mentality; send 'em all to the work house.

    Solidarity with one's fellow citizens, consideration for their dignity, a bit of forbearance from those of us who are lucky enough to enjoy secure employment, good jobs or inherited wealth.... all that be damned because a right-wing ideology says that more money in the pockets of richer people is axiomatically desirable, no matter the human carnage that results.
    One thing the left is great at is class warfare. They have elevated gutter politics to an art form. The Right on the other hand is the real party of the people. The party that doesn't want people to languish in multi generational poverty but alleviate themselves with a helping hand.

    Handouts aren't helping the poor. They force individuals to surrender their dignity and lock them in to prolonged dependence. What happened to the dignity that all humans are equal in the eyes of God? What happened to the dignity in labour (not the party, labour as in work)?

    Nobody wants to stop social support to the most vulnerable and the most needy.
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    (Original post by ~Duke)
    Income above 150,000 is taxed at 50%. Then, add on the other taxes, NI, VAT, Council Tax etc cumulatively amounting to close to 70%
    What are you talking about? The highest marginal income tax rate is 45%, the Tories dropped it by 5%.

    And the wealthiest aren't concerned with mere formalities like income tax, thousands of them simply disappeared from the income tax rolls entirely after the introduction of the 50p rate and moved their income into more "efficient" tax structures.

    You know, my boyfriend is in that bracket, and not only does he pay his full NI contributions and income tax (despite being fairly well-situated to make himself more tax efficient), as a self-employed individual he also pays 20% VAT on his earnings (not to mention clerks fees) before it even reaches his pocket.

    I don't think I've ever heard him say he felt overtaxed, or resentful that he pays higher tax on an income afforded to him by the opportunities he's been blessed with. He doesn't begrudge someone who has not had his opportunities and advantages being paid £70 a week on which to survive.

    We don't think twice about spending that going out for dinner, what kind of ********s would we have to actually get worked up about this stuff? We seem have avoided, thus far, the common affliction I've noticed in wealthier people that the more they have, the more they feel entitled to dispose of all of it in any way they please, and that their success is theirs alone.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    That lady doesn't represent every single person on benefits.
    I know she doesn't but she is not an isolated case sadly
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    (Original post by tory88)
    Benefits already pay that. I wouldn't pay on top of benefits. It would be a requirement of claiming the benefit that you made yourself available for work if asked.
    They don't already pay that.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    I literally have nothing to say when faced with such hatred of the poor.
    Where have I made a single hateful statement against the poor?
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    (Original post by Nunu Bot)
    I didn't say the solution was ethical. But when there is no solution it starts to make people think about these types of things. Not only would there be no offspring to scrounge of the taxpayer but also there wouldn't be any teenagers growing up, those teenagers can cause other people grief in public because of their poor upbringing. This includes stealing, assault etc. Are ethics really worth it when it's diminishing everybody's quality of life and their physical safety as well?

    Not saying I 100% endorse the idea, but it's food for thought.
    A lot of people on this thread struggle to accept that the system is faulty never mind that lool!

    I think you should only procrate when you can pay the bills lol
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    Adjusted, not cut. Some people genuinely need benefits to get by.
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    Why is everyone on this forum 'pro-caveman'?
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    (Original post by ~Duke)
    Where have I made a single hateful statement against the poor?
    Total lack of self awareness too. Urgggh.
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    (Original post by a729)
    How out of touch are you? graduates are there fighting for the same jobs as the working class
    People are scrambling for jobs! There are cases of 30,000 people applying for only 300 posts at TfL
    Nope. I work with a lot of large players in the infrastructure and transportation industries, and they have trouble recruiting quality candidates in engineering disciplines.

    I'm a British-Australian dual citizen, so is my boyfriend (though we're in different fields... for now)

    Even for my position with my employer, I was only hired on the second round of interviews. There are many overseas citizens throughout the ranks of my employer who got jobs despite the UK legal requirement that when jobs are re-advertised, they can only be awarded to non-British citizens if there are no native candidates better qualified to do the job.

    It's far fairer to say there are structural imbalances in the economy, and that years of undermining of state education has left Britons less able to compete against the global workforce that competes for jobs (at least in London)
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    (Original post by a729)
    What could the government have introduced instead of EMA?

    We already pay for taxes for that but welfare spending is much larger than healthcare spending ..
    Why should the government pay people to stay in school when millions around the world are denied that opportunity as they have to pay for it - soon it will be compulsory to stay in education till 18



    How out of touch are you? graduates are there fighting for the same jobs as the working class
    People are scrambling for jobs! There are cases of 30,000 people applying for only 300 posts at TfL

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18627327
    Perhaps an educational voucher which could be used for buying just educational equipment from retailers such as WHSmith? A rail card maybe, or a bus pass? If travelling to college or sixth form. It's not exactly hard, is it? If there are certain limitations then there would be no chance of spending the money on unnecessary items.

    I'm not out of touch at all, I very much know graduates are finding it hard to find employment. But I'm not being funny, those who are finding it hard to find employment are in degrees which are unlikely to take them anywhere. And I'm not being arrogant because I am very much for progress in our economy but there are some pointless degrees out there. And no, there are plenty of jobs available. You only have to look on Job Centre plus to see that
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    (Original post by trianglehate)
    Perhaps an educational voucher which could be used for buying just educational equipment from retailers such as WHSmith? A rail card maybe, or a bus pass? If travelling to college or sixth form. It's not exactly hard, is it? If there are certain limitations then there would be no chance of spending the money on unnecessary items.

    I'm not out of touch at all, I very much know graduates are finding it hard to find employment. But I'm not being funny, those who are finding it hard to find employment are in degrees which are unlikely to take them anywhere. And I'm not being arrogant because I am very much for progress in our economy but there are some pointless degrees out there. And no, there are plenty of jobs available. You only have to look on Job Centre plus to see that


    Plenty of jobs available, yes. Jobs available that will allow me to make a living, pay pills, put food on the table, travel, WHILE saving a 'little' - Why should i take a cleaners jobs, 20 miles away, when that salary wont even cover my travel?

    If there were jobs that would 'sustain a living' then yes, I would take it.
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    (Original post by a729)
    A lot of people on this thread struggle to accept that the system is faulty never mind that lool!

    I think you should only procrate when you can pay the bills lol
    Oh brilliant. Shall we have a Chinese communist style system of forced abortions and hysterectomies, coupled with total withdrawal of benefits for any more than a single child?

    I know Tories were authoritarian by instinct, but this really is over the top. The lol doesn't help
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    (Original post by trianglehate)
    And no, there are plenty of jobs available. You only have to look on Job Centre plus to see that
    Most of which are part time or zero hour contracts.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Nope. I work with a lot of large players in the infrastructure and transportation industries, and they have trouble recruiting quality candidates in engineering disciplines.

    I'm a British-Australian dual citizen, so is my boyfriend (though we're in different fields... for now)

    Even for my position with my employer, I was only hired on the second round of interviews. There are many overseas citizens throughout the ranks of my employer who got jobs despite the UK legal requirement that when jobs are re-advertised, they can only be awarded to non-British citizens if there are no other suitably qualified candidates.

    It's far fairer to say there are structural imbalances in the economy, and that years of undermining of state education has left Britons less able to compete against the global workforce that competes for jobs (at least in London)

    Our economy relies on the service sector for the majority of jobs (especially for the working class)

    You are missing the point

    the job you applied to is unattainable to most working class people!

    The education has many problems- including that in some schools there are children who struggle to speak Enlgish *

    * Personally I think anyone in England/UK should learn English
 
 
 
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