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We SHOULD cut welfare spending! Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should we cut welfare spending?
    Yes
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    82
    21.98%
    No-increase welfare spending
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    FFS I am not mentally retarded, I have mental health issues and I have a learning difficulty
    Where did I say you were? I said "mentally retarded" is not the same as having "learning difficulties".....

    So (according to you) people with "learning difficulties" cannot work- but you're able to sit and type at a computer debating with me?
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    What are you on about social stigma? You're the one who changed the term "mentally retarded"- I just used it to say those people genuinely cannot work. People like you discriminated against them when you decided to re-name the word!



    Experts? Strange, Oxbridge said they accepted more state pupils when Grammar schools existed....

    Oh and the LEAs with Grammar schools have higher average GCSE attainment than non-Grammar LEAs- I'd call that effective!

    The fact of the matter is that you are a leftie- you let children think they are doing fine, when in fact they aren't. Instead of being honest with them you lie and say nothing is wrong..... you lie and you want to bring down those who succeed to the level of the failures.
    I didn't change the term at all. I simply challenged a fundamental ignorance on your part. And I won and made you look silly. This pleases me greatly

    As for the 11+... Well, I really don't care, it's a relic from the last that thankfully will never have a place in British schools again, what more is there to say?


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    (Original post by euphful)
    A mobile phone is surely quite a useful tool for any job seeker?


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    So is a landline?

    Anyhow cheap phones should be available for less than £20

    But benefit claimants with high-end phones are getting a better deal than thos in work
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    But they are not the same.....

    Someone can be mentally retarded without coming into contact with a learning opportunity... so how can that be a learning difficulty?
    Don't you ever give up? You have a person with a disability telling you the term is offensive and you have someone who works within mental health services telling you the term is inaccurate and obsolete. And I've evidenced that. Move on.


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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Where did I say you were? I said "mentally retarded" is not the same as having "learning difficulties".....

    So (according to you) people with "learning difficulties" cannot work- but you're able to sit and type at a computer debating with me?
    I did not say that so stop trying to twist things and put words into peoples mouths
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I am a disabled student who had to rely on welfare when taking a year out. I am not bone idle, state scrounger etc which is the rhetoric from these people and it is not nice being called all sorts. I am in receipt of DLA whilst studying

    These people fail to take into account the reasons why people are on welfare
    No one on this thread is suggesting cutting welfare for the GENUINELY needy (like yourself)

    We are contesting the cases where able-bodied people spurn job opportunities wilfully in order to have an easier life claiming benefits at the expense of taxpayers

    The problem is that the welfare system CAN be a disincentive to work
    ( council tax exemptions, housing benefit,income support/JSA)
    as some people in work are less well of than those on benefits
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    (Original post by euphful)
    I didn't change the term at all. I simply challenged a fundamental ignorance on your part. And I won and made you look silly. This pleases me greatly
    So the fact I don't subscribe to the Guardian and I didnt think anyone could be so f*cking stupid as to rename "mentally retarded" to "learning difficulties".... which aren't even the sodding same term.... means you "won"?

    That's your argument right? Because I used a non-PC term suddenly my argument falls apart? lol

    The funniest thing is that 'learning difficulty' and 'developmental delay' aren't even the same thing as "mentally retarded"!! "learning difficulty" is what those kids at primary school had, the ones who couldn't read that well- they weren't mentally retarded!
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    (Original post by a729)
    Ditto

    It annoys me when people say the government took away 'my EMA' - how is it yours?
    You didn't do anything to deserve it, you didn't have to work for it

    It's a privilege (which many people in other countries don't have) not a right
    Funny how some people are quick to lay a 'claim' to their 'right' when it comes to benefits, but don't give any thoughts to their 'responsibilities' like declaring 'changes in circumstances'!

    Benefits = right = wage? Only in Britain! I want to help the vulnerable members of our society, with respect and their dignity intact but I passionately despise those that abuse the welfare system!
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    (Original post by euphful)
    Don't you ever give up? You have a person with a disability telling you the term is offensive and you have someone who works within mental health services telling you the term is inaccurate and obsolete. And I've evidenced that. Move on.


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    No I have a leftie saying "mentally retarded" means "learning difficulty" and I just gave you a solid case why they are not the same....

    Need I repeat myself?

    How can a mentally retarded person be re-classed with a "learning difficulty" if the reason they were described as mentally retarded had nothing to do with learning?
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    So the fact I don't subscribe to the Guardian and I didnt think anyone could be so f*cking stupid as to rename "mentally retarded" to "learning difficulties".... which aren't even the sodding same term.... means you "won"?

    That's your argument right? Because I used a non-PC term suddenly my argument falls apart? lol

    The funniest thing is that 'learning difficulty' and 'developmental delay' aren't even the same thing as "mentally retarded"!! "learning difficulty" is what those kids at primary school had, the ones who couldn't read that well- they weren't mentally retarded!
    You aren't a doctor. As far as I can tell you have clinical or medical qualification and I have no reason to believe you've conducted any kind of in-depth or evidenced research in to this subject. Your continued assertions that somehow you know better than a) me and b) the NHS and c) the experts within mental health services who have worked and researched the subject for the majority of their working lives is making you look silly. Accept that you got it wrong, apologise for the offence you've caused and find another group to pick on.


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    (Original post by a729)
    It punishes the working class when you're richer on benefits than working (after tax/NI )
    what nonsense. I'm on ESA and I get about 2k a year (56 quid a week)- barely enough to live on. A minimum wage job would increase my income more than twicefold. I would earn 56 quid every day instead of every week. There's a massive difference. They're talking about making it so that it always pays better to work than to be on benefits, but the truth is there is already a massive discrepancy!

    look up how much people on benefits actually get before you speak.

    and by the way most people in recepit of benefits are already in work. They're not "scroungers".

    If you want to cut the deficit focus on all the rich people who evade tax, not on the vulnerable, the disabled and the poor.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    No I have a leftie saying "mentally retarded" means "learning difficulty" and I just gave you a solid case why they are not the same....

    Need I repeat myself?

    How can a mentally retarded person be re-classed with a "learning difficulty" if the reason they were described as mentally retarded had nothing to do with learning?
    Put bluntly, what kind of qualification or experience do you have to offer any sound opinion on the subject?


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    (Original post by a729)
    So is a landline?

    Anyhow cheap phones should be available for less than £20

    But benefit claimants with high-end phones are getting a better deal than thos in work
    As i mentioned earlier, my landline costs more a month then my iphone contract. And my iPhone was free.

    Even if you do get a cheap pay as you go phone, the chances are you'll be spending more then £10 a week on it. = £520 + whatever the phone cost.

    A free iPhone and £30 a month contract = £360
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    (Original post by euphful)
    You aren't a doctor. As far as I can tell you have clinical or medical qualification and I have no reason to believe you've conducted any kind of in-depth or evidenced research in to this subject. Your continued assertions that somehow you know better than a) me and b) the NHS and c) the experts within mental health services who have worked and researched the subject for the majority of their working lives is making you look silly. Accept that you got it wrong, apologise for the offence you've caused and find another group to pick on.


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    Mentally retarded != "learning difficulty"

    I had lots of friends who had learning difficulties! They weren't sodding mentally retarded- which is what you're implying!

    Of course I know better than you- you believe in renaming to "developmental DELAY".... has anyone ever reached the stage where the "delay" has turned up??
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    (Original post by euphful)
    Put bluntly, what kind of qualification or experience do you have to offer any sound opinion on the subject?


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    Answer my question

    How can a mentally retarded person be "learning difficulty" if what lead to their classification had nothing to do with learning?

    How can someone have a "developmental delay" when their development will most likely never increase? it's not a "delay" then, is it? It's permanent and you know it- more lies.
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    (Original post by dj_macky)
    Funny how some people are quick to lay a 'claim' to their 'right' when it comes to benefits, but don't give any thoughts to their 'responsibilities' like declaring 'changes in circumstances'!

    Benefits = right = wage? Only in Britain! I want to help the vulnerable members of our society, with respect and their dignity intact but I passionately despise those that abuse the welfare system!
    I know mate, Labour has helped ingrain this culture in some sections of society

    There examples of the real needy going without while people who almost certainly only have kids to get more benefits look at this story which irritates me as we all have to pay to fund this
    (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-trashed.html)
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    Hey guys, I thought I'd just throw my 50p in this pot...
    First off, a little bit about me ( may help you understand what I'm on about later on)
    I'm from a stable background, quite traditional in some respects, mother was on part time employment, father had a really good job and provided.
    Long story short, she ended up with cancer and he became depressed after the death of my grandparents ( my mum's cancer and grandparents death were within 5 weeks of each other)
    I'm actually a local political activist in Wrexham, stood for council, and I work in my regional Lib Dem Assembly Member's office as a researcher.
    Safe to say... I'm going to have opinion on the welfare state.

    A few points:
    1) Welfare does need to be reduced.... sensibly.
    2) Housing benefit is the biggest culpret.
    3) It's not foreigners, only 5% of Polish migrants who came into the country over the last 2 years actually claimed benefit - it's all right wing scaremongering.
    4) Unfortunatly, the biggest recipients in benefits are those who it is politically divisive to target, which is why the new welfare reforms barely make a dent in them - for those of you who are not aware... that's old people. They are most likely to vote and it's a lot harder to take their benefits away without causing uproar. ( In some cases this is fine, but then you get the opposite where there above average pensioners ( in terms of wealth) who don't need benefits but get them. In short... they are the politically untouchable; rightly or wrongly, I'll let you decide.

    In terms of students....
    Unfortunatly Labour created this little society where they wanted 50% of people to go to university.... not even 50% of people go to college....
    If you have 50% of people going to university, we would end up in a situation where we lose out on a big chunk of our workforce, which statistically lowers the unemployment rate ( think about it...)
    In terms of EMA... do I think it was a good call??? As an outsider from Wales who still gets it thanks to the Welsh Assembly... I believe it is genuinely a positive thing to have, but I also understand a lot of people use it for drink money and whatever else.. my suggestion would be to have a centeral procurement facility whereby your EMA acted as credit for stuff you wanted to buy. But also have the provision that you could have the credit as cash, but you would have it at a reduced rate... say 50%?

    I understand a lot of people once they realise I'm a lib dem will mention tuition fees... but ask your self this...
    If you are not paying anything upfront in terms of tuition..... but get it taken off you like a very small tax after graduation and income levels gained... isn't that a good thing??

    Most people will never actually pay off all of their student loan before it clears off anyhow... FACT.
    On top of all that, same situation applies to part time students which is a fantastic achievement.

    We would have like to have gotten rid of the entirety of the fees... but we couldn't because there's simply not the money there to do it... so we decided to change the system which in turn actually makes it fairer for students like me and you. Did I mention that most students won't even pay income tax because their personal allowances have gone up from April?

    But this gives us the money in the pocket so we can spend in the highstreet or online etc and get the economy moving again... encourage big business to re-invest in the highstreet.. in manufacturing.. and other capital projects so we can really make some movement on the UK economy.

    Hope this didn't bore you... so have fun debating.
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    Will you stop picking on the disabled and those on benefits, it is nasty
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Mentally retarded != "learning difficulty"

    I had lots of friends who had learning difficulties! They weren't sodding mentally retarded- which is what you're implying!

    Of course I know better than you- you believe in renaming to "developmental DELAY".... has anyone ever reached the stage where the "delay" has turned up??
    You are perhaps the most ignorant and offensive person I have come across. You have no sound or reasoned opinion and you have no knowledge or experience that gives any weight to the crap that you're asserting. So this really is a pointless exercise.


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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    As i mentioned earlier, my landline costs more a month then my iphone contract. And my iPhone was free.

    Even if you do get a cheap pay as you go phone, the chances are you'll be spending more then £10 a week on it. = £520 + whatever the phone cost.

    A free iPhone and £30 a month contract = £360
    you forget you need a good credit rating to get a phone contract

    If someone has used payday loans or mismanaged their finances that simply wouldn't be an option

    £10 a week - that's a bit extravagant when a basic landline offers pretty good value (http://www.homephonefinder.co.uk/pro...:|p2:|p:|end:1)

    How do you pay so much unless you have a package with say sky and/or broadband
 
 
 
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