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    (Original post by Roger1)
    Yeah and it's a pity that Federer is too old and way past his peak to compete with Murray, Andy and Nadal anymore. If he was, then these guys would have had less GS and other accomplishments.

    And Federer is better than Nadal on outdoor HCs. It's just a pity that Nadal only mostly met Federer on slower HCs in Fed's prime and met him on a faster one, when Federer was possibly in the worst form of his career.
    Federer really should have won more of their earlier HC encounters as well if he had not been so stubborn and had actually implemented the tactics he used in Cincinnati and in 2012.
    I think he can still compete with Djokovic though - his game style is suited to play Novak, and the Serb is in a bit of a rough patch himself. In the US Open, it would be good if Federer could draw Ferrer or Djokovic in his quarter, that would at least give him a chance of making the semis or finals.
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Federer really should have won more of their earlier HC encounters as well if he had not been so stubborn and had actually implemented the tactics he used in Cincinnati and in 2012.
    I think he can still compete with Djokovic though - his game style is suited to play Novak, and the Serb is in a bit of a rough patch himself. In the US Open, it would be good if Federer could draw Ferrer or Djokovic in his quarter, that would at least give him a chance of making the semis or finals.
    Federer's main problem against Nadal has always been mental and not so much the matchup issue, as many people like to talk about.

    And it would be great if Fed draws Novak, considering that Novak is closing in on Federer's consecutive GS semi final streak.
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    (Original post by Alkain1607)
    I can see Rafa tying Sampras before the end of his career, if his knees miraculously hold up then I could see him tying/surpassing Federer for Grand slam achievement. It's always funny that people don't rate Rafa on other surfaces, yet he's probably as good as Murray on the hard courts and better than Fed on the outdoor ones. It's such a pity that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal didn't peak at the same time as Fed. I'd be willing to state that Fed wouldn't have anywhere near as many GS as he has now if the competition had been the level it is now.
    The competition is actually not much better than it was 7-8 years ago. In fact, the best year was probably 2011/mid-2012 when everyone still had some magic left in them. Now, only Nadal is really playing well. In 2005 and even a little before, the tennis played was unbelievable in terms of quality, shot-making and winners. The 2005 Masters Cup Final was probably better than most GS Finals in terms of sheer talent and shot-making, and actually anyone from World No.2 was vulnerable to upsets - the World's best player was just so good across the board that it was very very difficult to beat him. Nowadays, the game has been altered and now favours the fitter, athletic players who are able to grind out points time and time again.
    The last decade has been somewhat of a transitional period. Had Murray, Rafa and Djok been around from 2002 to 2008/09 ish, there would not have been much difference. Rafa may have had a couple of extra Slams but that's probably it.
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    (Original post by Roger1)
    Federer's main problem against Nadal has always been mental and not so much the matchup issue, as many people like to talk about.

    And it would be great if Fed draws Novak, considering that Novak is closing in on Federer's consecutive GS semi final streak.
    I don't really think the main problem is mental, although I think that has played a role.

    Nadal has been beating Federer from very early in the rivalry. I don't think there's much need to overcomplicate it: Nadal's heavy topspin forehand is very difficult for Federer's backhand to deal with.

    Then when these defeats happen regularly, I think that lead to a mental problem against Nadal.
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    (Original post by Alkain1607)
    I can see Rafa tying Sampras before the end of his career, if his knees miraculously hold up then I could see him tying/surpassing Federer for Grand slam achievement. It's always funny that people don't rate Rafa on other surfaces, yet he's probably as good as Murray on the hard courts and better than Fed on the outdoor ones. It's such a pity that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal didn't peak at the same time as Fed. I'd be willing to state that Fed wouldn't have anywhere near as many GS as he has now if the competition had been the level it is now.
    If they'd all been the same age when they peaked i bet that Federer would actually have more, until 2009 (28?) he was incredible.
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Federer really should have won more of their earlier HC encounters as well if he had not been so stubborn and had actually implemented the tactics he used in Cincinnati and in 2012.
    I think he can still compete with Djokovic though - his game style is suited to play Novak, and the Serb is in a bit of a rough patch himself. In the US Open, it would be good if Federer could draw Ferrer or Djokovic in his quarter, that would at least give him a chance of making the semis or finals.
    Nadal was also really stubborn against Djokovic in 2011 didn't change his tactics at all. But one thing with Rafa is that he can lose to Murray, Federer and Nole knowing he still has H2H advantage so he can live to fight another day.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    I don't really think the main problem is mental, although I think that has played a role.

    Nadal has been beating Federer from very early in the rivalry. I don't think there's much need to overcomplicate it: Nadal's heavy topspin forehand is very difficult for Federer's backhand to deal with.

    Then when these defeats happen regularly, I think that lead to a mental problem against Nadal.
    Yes, and the reason Nadal has found that backhand so regularly is the fact that Federer has not bothered to change his style until now. He never previously tried reversing the situation and attacking Nadal's backhand consistently, and he didn't attack the net or play enough drop shots - if he'd done any more of that he would have had some very important wins under his belt.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    If they'd all been the same age when they peaked i bet that Federer would actually have more, until 2009 (28?) he was incredible.
    I disagree completely if they were all same age when they peaked then i reckon Nadal would have more. Nadal would be in the best position. With Murray in last position.
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    (Original post by ubi1)
    Nadal was also really stubborn against Djokovic in 2011 didn't change his tactics at all. But one thing with Rafa is that he can lose to Murray, Federer and Nole knowing he still has H2H advantage so he can live to fight another day.
    Now, yes he does have that cushion lol

    Difference is that Nadal made the change in 2012 (on clay) itself so straight after those 7 defeats, whilst Federer only decided to attack Nadal's BH more often in 2012, 8 years after their rivalry began. If you watch the 2012 Indian Wells SF, you can clearly see Federer's tactics in play there.
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Yes, and the reason Nadal has found that backhand so regularly is the fact that Federer has not bothered to change his style until now. He never previously tried reversing the situation and attacking Nadal's backhand consistently, and he didn't attack the net or play enough drop shots - if he'd done any more of that he would have had some very important wins under his belt.
    Easier said than done. Federer tried attacking the net a lot in the French Open 2008 final, and look how that turned out. :p:
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    (Original post by ubi1)
    I disagree completely if they were all same age when they peaked then i reckon Nadal would have more. Nadal would be in the best position. With Murray in last position.
    Nadal may have had a couple extra, Djokovic would have had literally 1 or 2, and Murray maybe 1. If they all peaked at the same time, Fed and Nadal would have exerted complete superiority over the field (they did that anyway!).
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Now, yes he does have that cushion lol

    Difference is that Nadal made the change in 2012 (on clay) itself so straight after those 7 defeats, whilst Federer only decided to attack Nadal's BH more often in 2012, 8 years after their rivalry began. If you watch the 2012 Indian Wells SF, you can clearly see Federer's tactics in play there.
    Federer must have looked at the IW match no wonder he played so good.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    I don't really think the main problem is mental, although I think that has played a role.

    Nadal has been beating Federer from very early in the rivalry. I don't think there's much need to overcomplicate it: Nadal's heavy topspin forehand is very difficult for Federer's backhand to deal with.

    Then when these defeats happen regularly, I think that lead to a mental problem against Nadal.
    When we exclude clay Fed actually had a 5-2 head to head after the masters cup 07 so at age 27 he was crushing him outside clay.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Easier said than done. Federer tried attacking the net a lot in the French Open 2008 final, and look how that turned out. :p:
    Yeah, maybe not on clay then. That was madness, Nadal was playing some of his best ever passing shots - I suppose he could have just got into some baseline exchanges and tried finding Rafa's BH, but that match he would not have won anyway.

    Better examples are probably Rome 2006, RG 2006, Dubai 2006, MC 2008, Wimby 2008, AO 2009 (definitely!)
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    When we exclude clay Fed actually had a 5-2 head to head after the masters cup 07 so at age 27 he was crushing him outside clay.
    Meh, perhaps I overestimated the number of times Nadal beat Fed early on in the rivalry.

    That said though, his topspin is going to have the greatest effect on clay, so I do still think that Fed's initial problems with Nadal were gameplay-based, rather than mental, given that he struggled the most on clay. (And done the best indoors.)

    I think the 2008 FO, 2008 W, and AO 2009 will have had a pretty big mental effect though.
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Yeah, maybe not on clay then. That was madness, Nadal was playing some of his best ever passing shots - I suppose he could have just got into some baseline exchanges and tried finding Rafa's BH, but that match he would not have won anyway.

    Better examples are probably Rome 2006, RG 2006, Dubai 2006, MC 2008, Wimby 2008, AO 2009 (definitely!)
    Okay guys Rafa's weakness BH, Federers weakness BH, Djokovic weakness FH. What is Murray's Weakness FH OR BH?
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    (Original post by ubi1)
    Okay guys Rafa's weakness BH, Federers weakness BH, Djokovic weakness FH. What is Murray's Weakness FH OR BH?
    Probably the 2nd serve and the FH - his BH is very good when it's on.
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    (Original post by Krish4791)
    Probably the 2nd serve and the FH - his BH is very good when it's on.
    Second serve is one of the worst I've ever seen. I hope its Murray vs Djokovic in semis of US open and Federer Vs Nadal Semis that would be dream semi final line up. Do you reckon thats possible.
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    (Original post by ubi1)
    Second serve is one of the worst I've ever seen. I hope its Murray vs Djokovic in semis of US open and Federer Vs Nadal Semis that would be dream semi final line up. Do you reckon thats possible.
    Could be, Fed would have to be in Ferrer's quarter and then beat him.
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    (Original post by Prendah)
    Could be, Fed would have to be in Ferrer's quarter and then beat him.
    Federer can certainly beat Ferrer if that's any consolation for him. Forget the H2H for now, but Ferrer has also been rapidly declining on hard courts since the beginning of the year. After Miami, he's lost quite early at Montreal and Cincinnati to players he would not have lost to. Both are low on confidence, but Fed appears to be getting some back so if they both make it to the QFs at Flushing Meadows, he should win that.
 
 
 
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