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Cyprus bailout - Up to 10% being taken from savings Watch

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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I wonder if Cyprus still features in the Daily Telegraph's list of recommended tax havens:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ns-Cyprus.html

    What I don't get is why these countries that are associated with low tax, eg Cyprus, Ireland and in the case of Greece, low rates of tax collection, aren't thriving economies? Surely their low tax rates encourage hard work and enterprise and their economies should be flying?
    Probably because you still need a wider draw (Singapore has a highly skilled work force and some cracking infrastructure) otherwise the best you can be is a big bank. I think Ireland is actually outgrowing most if not all of the Eurozone (though they only grew 0.8% in 2012).
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I'm not sure they have, it's the Cypriot state that needs the bailout.
    The Cyprus government approached the EU for a 17 billion euro bailout to support its two main banks that were in imminent danger of collasping and the EU powers/ IMF said they would provide 10 billion euro if Cyprus raised the other 7 billion.


    Nice cartoon thunder_chunky, sums it up well.
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    (Original post by reciproversexclu)
    The Cyprus government approached the EU for a 17 billion euro bailout to support its two main banks that were in imminent danger of collasping and the EU powers/ IMF said they would provide 10 billion euro if Cyprus raised the other 7 billion.

    Nice cartoon thunder_chunky, sums it up well.
    Ah, so its more like the Spanish banking bailout rather than Greek bailout.

    Being fair the rich Russians shouldn't whinge too much since the banks probably wouldn't open again if they get no bailout.
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    You don't really expect theft on this scale to happen in banks. Quite disappointing. Makes me glad that I store my money in a Bitcoin wallet that is backed up securely in several different areas.
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    Parliament has rejected the bailout, Eurozone back in crisis
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    Whether a country needs bailing out or not, the morality of this is so wrong.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Parliament has rejected the bailout, Eurozone back in crisis
    thank the gods for that. Blind thievery from Germany

    Id imagine that if they did pass it their next move would be to mounted on a gallows.

    Ive two friends in Cyprus who were terrified of this idea
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Probably because you still need a wider draw (Singapore has a highly skilled work force and some cracking infrastructure) otherwise the best you can be is a big bank. I think Ireland is actually outgrowing most if not all of the Eurozone (though they only grew 0.8% in 2012).
    But surely all of the businesses that are sick of rip off Britain and Western Europe where they are being forced to pay enormous taxes to fund large welfare states could simply take their business elsewhere and relocate to these low tax economies like Ireland, Cyprus, Greece, and then create wealth and jobs in those economies? That would mean that the tax take of those countries increases...
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    (Original post by silverbolt)
    thank the gods for that. Blind thievery from Germany

    Id imagine that if they did pass it their next move would be to mounted on a gallows.

    Ive two friends in Cyprus who were terrified of this idea
    To be fair, German politicians were trying to figure out how they could sell bailing out a bunch of Russian tax avoiders to German taxpayers - seems a reasonable concern.

    I don't quite understand why they couldn't just target all accounts held in Cyprus by someone of overseas origin, but presumably there were many difficulties down that track as well.

    I don't like this move by the Troika - it is a very unorthodox measure and effectively imposes a historical retrospective tax, as well as hitting savers. However, extreme situations do sometimes call for extreme measures. The alternatives are not very good.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    But surely all of the businesses that are sick of rip off Britain and Western Europe where they are being forced to pay enormous taxes to fund large welfare states could simply take their business elsewhere and relocate to these low tax economies like Ireland, Cyprus, Greece, and then create wealth and jobs in those economies? That would mean that the tax take of those countries increases...
    Well as i'm sure your aware they still want access to the large markets and i presume it's a bit more complicated in most places than just choosing to pay tax elsewhere, not to mention there will be a point where you don't gain from a stupidly low tax rate.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    To be fair, German politicians were trying to figure out how they could sell bailing out a bunch of Russian tax avoiders to German taxpayers.
    It isn't Russian tax avoiders (no point trying to avoid 13% it is peanuts), it is Russian money laundering which has helped the Cypriot economy whereas Greece basically ****ed the Cypriot banks that bailed them out (most likely out of ethnic solidarity).

    Anyway looks like Russia will be the ones stepping in to save Cyprus and I have a feeling that Cyprus will leave Eurozone as taking a massive bailout from Russia (not just 2€billion) would be against some clauses apparently. I will say that Germany are being rather ridiculous and Wolfgang Schauble is an ******** "two large Cypriot banks are essentially insolvent without aid" yes your comments are really helping Herr Schauble :fuhrer: ****.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    It isn't Russian tax avoiders (no point trying to avoid 13% it is peanuts), it is Russian money laundering which has helped the Cypriot economy whereas Greece basically ****ed the Cypriot banks that bailed them out (most likely out of ethnic solidarity).

    Anyway looks like Russia will be the ones stepping in to save Cyprus and I have a feeling that Cyprus will leave Eurozone as taking a massive bailout from Russia (not just 2€billion) would be against some clauses apparently. I will say that Germany are being rather ridiculous and Wolfgang Schauble is an ******** "two large Cypriot banks are essentially insolvent without aid" yes your comments are really helping Herr Schauble :fuhrer: ****.
    It sounds from descriptions in various sources as though the Russian money is a mixture of the proceeds of crime, hiding from the state and just the usual general fear & loathing of Russian location.

    Yes, I'll believe the Russian loan when I see it though - Putin's government are so slippery, do the Cypriots really want to get into bed with them to that extent? Then again, I suppose they already are to some extent.

    I'm not convinced by all the knocking of Germany that's going on, but they were on the radio this evening saying that they only wanted the tax at 100K+ Euros and it was the Cyprus government that demanded the lower tax band.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    It isn't Russian tax avoiders (no point trying to avoid 13% it is peanuts), it is Russian money laundering which has helped the Cypriot economy whereas Greece basically ****ed the Cypriot banks that bailed them out (most likely out of ethnic solidarity).
    The actual income tax is around 45% in Russia if you include all the deductions that the business pays out to the state for each worker. E.g. take a person earning, say, 20k rub pcm (your average Russian salary, may even be considered high in some regions, that's around £400). The actual salary the employer pays would be around 40-50k, especially if it fails to secure exemptions, this is exactly why businesses, not employees, are pressured to avoid tax and in recent years this tendency regained its strength (i.e. people being paid 20k on paper and another 60k cash in hand is a common occurence in moscow) but the amounts are insignificant so nobody actually hides the money.

    Most of the money in Cyprus bank accounts is likely to be stolen by govt officials/their cronies.
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    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    The actual income tax is around 45% in Russia if you include all the deductions that the business pays out to the state for each worker. E.g. take a person earning, say, 20k rub pcm (your average Russian salary, may even be considered high in some regions, that's around £400). The actual salary the employer pays would be around 40-50k, especially if it fails to secure exemptions, this is exactly why businesses, not employees, are pressured to avoid tax and in recent years this tendency regained its strength (i.e. people being paid 20k on paper and another 60k cash in hand is a common occurence in moscow) but the amounts are insignificant so nobody actually hides the money.

    Most of the money in Cyprus bank accounts is likely to be stolen by govt officials/their cronies.
    Fascinating info (and tehFrance ) I make the average ~ 'stard median - in Russia around two thirds the UK minimum wage......... but how would the "govt officials/their cronies" get access CEKTOP ?
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    (Original post by CEKTOP)
    The actual income tax is around 45% in Russia if you include all the deductions that the business pays out to the state for each worker. E.g. take a person earning, say, 20k rub pcm (your average Russian salary, may even be considered high in some regions, that's around £400). The actual salary the employer pays would be around 40-50k, especially if it fails to secure exemptions, this is exactly why businesses, not employees, are pressured to avoid tax and in recent years this tendency regained its strength (i.e. people being paid 20k on paper and another 60k cash in hand is a common occurence in moscow) but the amounts are insignificant so nobody actually hides the money.

    Most of the money in Cyprus bank accounts is likely to be stolen by govt officials/their cronies.
    Corporate contributions are not personal income tax and thus do not count. I know all about how much people are paid in Russia.

    And? does it matter where it came from? not really.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Corporate contributions are not personal income tax and thus do not count. I know all about how much people are paid in Russia.

    And? does it matter where it came from? not really.
    It matters in as much as it enables German politicians to claim moral justification in insisting on the extraordinary savings tax - calling it a tax on Russian crooks is much more of a sell than calling it a tax on ordinary Cypriot savers.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I saw this and thought it rather good:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    [img]http://thebearded*******dotorg.files.wo rdpress.com/2013/03/bfplxn5cmaayy-c.jpg?w=660[/img]
    I hope you don't mind I stole this to post on FB.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Corporate contributions are not personal income tax and thus do not count. I know all about how much people are paid in Russia.

    And? does it matter where it came from? not really.
    Yes, they are, both in Russia and abroad, only the Russian system maintains the 13% tax because it is able to tax the employer directly. I'm afraid you don't know **** about what actually happens there and I'm 100% sure that you've never been outside Moscow/St. Petersburg to see the absolute destitution of 120 million people who live outside these cities (yeah, these places are actually Russia too).

    Yes, it does matter because, as someone said previously, it gives ample moral grounding to take that money away.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I hope you don't mind I stole this to post on FB.
    No problem, I stole it off someone else.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    No problem, I stole it off someone else.
    The chain continues.
 
 
 
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