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    (Original post by Nichrome)
    Today is an absolute must win after last weeks disaster at Southampton, if we don't we are in deep ****. Pretty nervous.
    Yes, this is an important game, but I'm quite confident. Sunderland are in poor form and, as far as I'm aware, don't travel well at all. They are also without Steven Fletcher, who is hugely important to them. I expect a convincing win.
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    (Original post by Mess.)
    Ones ability at football has absolutely no bearing on their ability to analyse anothers ability.
    I think it does.
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    (Original post by Tweek)
    I think it does.
    Justify?
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    (Original post by KingMessi)
    Justify?
    How can a player that was mediocre at best ever truly be able to understand what it takes, and how much ability you have yourself to make it to the top, and by top I don't mean playing in the EPL. I mean where no one argues you are one of the best strikers around. Runner up as the best footballer in the world. Torres came on to the scene ridiculously early and Savage thinks that wasn't natural talent?

    You can't understand something the same way if you've never experienced it. You can merely guess. Same goes for most of these awful pundits/columnists.

    All they can do is guess and compare it to what their own ability was and how it was like that. You can attempt to analyse all you want but they have no comparison.
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    (Original post by Tweek)
    How can a player that was mediocre at best ever truly be able to understand what it takes, and how much ability you have yourself to make it to the top, and by top I don't mean playing in the EPL. I mean where no one argues you are one of the best strikers around. Runner up as the best footballer in the world. Torres came on to the scene ridiculously early and Savage thinks that wasn't natural talent?

    You can't understand something the same way if you've never experienced it. You can merely guess. Same goes for most of these awful pundits/columnists.

    All they can do is guess and compare it to what their own ability was and how it was like that. You can attempt to analyse all you want but they have no comparison.
    I agree that Savage is wrong, but I don't agree that only a top footballer can comment on the ability of another top footballer. If one is aware of the differentiating factors that separate the different bands of players, then surely they are able to apply those differentiating factors to a player to get a fairly accurate estimate of their ability?

    If you mean 'natural' talent as 'ability, then I agree, but I believe that using the concept of 'natural' talent once one becomes a professional is utter nonsense anyway. The concept of using 'natural' ability to decide which footballer is better or if a footballer is good is so foolish it should never be mentioned.
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    Going to sever my jugular if Yossi Benayoun plays today...
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    (Original post by KingMessi)
    I agree that Savage is wrong, but I don't agree that only a top footballer can comment on the ability of another top footballer. If one is aware of the differentiating factors that separate the different bands of players, then surely they are able to apply those differentiating factors to a player to get a fairly accurate estimate of their ability?

    If you mean 'natural' talent as 'ability, then I agree, but I believe that using the concept of 'natural' talent once one becomes a professional is utter nonsense anyway. The concept of using 'natural' ability to decide which footballer is better or if a footballer is good is so foolish it should never be mentioned.
    I didn't say only a top footballer can comment, he said that ability has "absolutely no bearing" on how they judge a players ability. I disagree. Any top player, I mean top, one who's been there wouldn't have made such mindless assumptions about Torres and stating he's just not naturally gifted.

    I was referring to natural talent as their general ability. Some players seem to just develop quicker, or are just generally able to do some things others can't with little to no practice when others take ages learning. It's like when you see players doing tricks on the field, with some it looks really static as if they've had to practice repetitively. But compare that to Ronaldinho where it always looked natural and fluid, as if he just knew what to do already and never had to repeat the same steps he learned. That's natural ability.

    My point being that no, it isn't necessary to be a world class footballer to analyse someone who was also in that position. I'm just saying it'd be bloody helpful. Savage was mediocre, had no technical ability but I admire the fact he did make because he put a lot of hard work in. But he was just a work horse on the pitch. He wasn't gifted. Torres broke on the scene as a teen for Madrid and already had phenomenal technical ability, hence being called up to the Spain squad at an early age. To say he wasn't naturally gifted as a footballer is insane. Thus only someone who wasn't a top player would state, as opposed to someone who was.
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    Team News:

    Chelsea Starting 11:
    Cech (c)
    Azpilicueta - Ivanovic - Dadvid Luiz - Bertrand
    Ramires - Mikel
    Oscar - Mata - Hazard
    Demba Ba

    Chelsea Subs:
    1) Turnbull
    2) Ferreira
    3) JT
    4) Lamps
    5) Marin
    6) Benayoun
    7) Torres




    Sunderland Staring 11:
    Mignolet
    Bardsle - Rose -O’Shea (c) - Kilgallon
    N’Diaye - Gardner - Larsson - Johnson
    Sessegnon
    Wickham

    Sunderland Subs:
    1) Westwood
    2) Graham
    3) Colback
    4) McClean
    5) Mangane
    6) Mandron
    7) Laidler
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    We just can't lose with that team.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    Feeling a bit more confident after Ba's goal against United, especially after his horror show against West Ham.

    No excuse for not winning this match with that team. Back to 3rd place by the end of the day.

    Mikel to score.
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    I totally agree...

    Not only should it be a win, but it should be a comfortable 3/4-0 win for us.
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    For the amount of money Sunderland have invested in their team these past seasons they have an awful squad. Need better scouts.
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    (Original post by Tweek)
    For the amount of money Sunderland have invested in their team these past seasons they have an awful squad. Need better scouts.
    They needed less Martin O'Neil and they would have been fine.
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    (Original post by Mess.)
    They needed less Martin O'Neil and they would have been fine.
    Not just MON, Steve Bruce did a number on them too. Pretty much just signed Manchester United's reserve team.
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    Chelsea's 56th game of the season. Sunderlands 36th...

    I still don't buy too much into this fatigue/tiredness as an excuse. Chelsea have world class players and they should be demanded to have the physical ability to play at this level. We're having a lot of rotation lately so any excuses by Rafa on tiredness is a poor way out. Not acceptable.
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    Chelsea's 56th game of the season. Sunderlands 36th...

    I still don't buy too much into this fatigue/tiredness as an excuse. Chelsea have world class players and they should be demanded to have the physical ability to play at this level. We're having a lot of rotation lately so any excuses by Rafa on tiredness is a poor way out. Not acceptable.
    Tiredness is perfectly acceptable in football.

    If everyone is at 100% and one team plays 3 games in 9 days they might be down to 90%. They then play a team that has had one game in 9 days and plays the game at 100%. Now ability wise the first team is far better than the second but the fatigue added to the lack of time for training and tactical planning is a great leveller in football.

    It is a similar level of nonsense as when critics say 'players used to play week in week out and didn't get tired'. That's because every team did that, if one team didn't and rotated fully then they would have had a massive advantage.

    Modern footballers could easily play as many games as they do but they wouldn't play with as much intensity to try and ensure they can get through each game to a decent standard.
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    Can't find any english streams...anyone?
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    (Original post by Mess.)
    Tiredness is perfectly acceptable in football.

    If everyone is at 100% and one team plays 3 games in 9 days they might be down to 90%. They then play a team that has had one game in 9 days and plays the game at 100%. Now ability wise the first team is far better than the second but the fatigue added to the lack of time for training and tactical planning is a great leveller in football.

    It is a similar level of nonsense as when critics say 'players used to play week in week out and didn't get tired'. That's because every team did that, if one team didn't and rotated fully then they would have had a massive advantage.

    Modern footballers could easily play as many games as they do but they wouldn't play with as much intensity to try and ensure they can get through each game to a decent standard.
    I just would not acceptable tiredness from Chelsea's squad as an excuse not to take 3 points against Sunderland. If we're talking about a mid-table team then sure. But not a world class team.
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    Predicting a 2-0 and Ba to score.
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    Lol, loved it how Ivan gave the keeper a nudge as he was walking back!
 
 
 
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