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    (Original post by ronki23)
    You could argue that legal alcohol is still bad though; thousands of people get pissed daily and hundreds cause the countries' A and E problems?

    Though i'm interested in why one can't OD on good quality heroin
    Its irrelevant whether alchohol is bad or not. Ever hear about alchohol prohibition in the states? We dont want to go down that path. Anyway, its not the governments job to say what we can and cant put in our bodies.

    Back in the 50s/60s when there were only about 500 heroin addicts in the UK who all recieved prescriptions there are accounts of some of these users dosing over 10 times a day with no problems, which if you talk to even the most hardcore heroin user is risk ****, back then it wasnt. Right now if you buy heroin on the street the quality isnt going to be great and its going to be cut with other ****.

    High quality heroin has 2 side effects. Addiction and constipation. I suggest you read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies if you want to see the mess the government made with Heroin. I cant remember specifics but some mothers rights group wanted it to be banned so the government banned it, a decade later and a black market had sprung up and we had 10s of thousands of addicts.

    Prohibition has done far more harm than any illegal drug ever has.
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    As someone who actually took drugs for years, I would say you are fooling youself if you consider them harmless, this includes alcohol and tobacco, the difference is obviously, the culture around drugs, and modern drugs can be very powerful, all this tied up with the illegality, should make one consider the need to take drugs. I don't have the need for anything more than a few beers, and the festive bottle of Vodka, but some feel the need to get this elusive ultimate high, nirvana it aint.
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Its irrelevant whether alchohol is bad or not. Ever hear about alchohol prohibition in the states? We dont want to go down that path. Anyway, its not the governments job to say what we can and cant put in our bodies.

    Back in the 50s/60s when there were only about 500 heroin addicts in the UK who all recieved prescriptions there are accounts of some of these users dosing over 10 times a day with no problems, which if you talk to even the most hardcore heroin user is risk ****, back then it wasnt. Right now if you buy heroin on the street the quality isnt going to be great and its going to be cut with other ****.

    High quality heroin has 2 side effects. Addiction and constipation. I suggest you read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies if you want to see the mess the government made with Heroin. I cant remember specifics but some mothers rights group wanted it to be banned so the government banned it, a decade later and a black market had sprung up and we had 10s of thousands of addicts.

    Prohibition has done far more harm than any illegal drug ever has.
    I know opiods like morphine,demerol and propofol are extremely addictive though. A close relative of mine had cancer which was supposed to be benign (or I was lied to) and in the last 3 months of her life her arm began to hurt more and more (cancer in the cartilage of the shoulder) so she became more and more addicted to morphine. C.O.D was 'old age' and a notable medical problem was 'ischaemic heart disease' but i'm sure either the cancer or the morphine addiction killed her (in the last 2 weeks of her life she used to sleep far too much [over 18 hours a day], she stopped breathing one day and the days she was awake she was screaming in pain for morphine; even lower dosage by syringe didn't help)

    As for the other opiods, I recall demerol and propofol killing Michael Jackson (was it a combination of both?). Same applies for Heath Ledger?

    I'm not a fan of opiods
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    As someone who actually took drugs for years, I would say you are fooling youself if you consider them harmless, this includes alcohol and tobacco, the difference is obviously, the culture around drugs, and modern drugs can be very powerful, all this tied up with the illegality, should make one consider the need to take drugs. I don't have the need for anything more than a few beers, and the festive bottle of Vodka, but some feel the need to get this elusive ultimate high, nirvana it aint.
    Hmm, why are some promoted then? I know cigarettes are being phased out but you regularly get adverts for alcohol. You could also argue they could legalise drugs and not promote them? The one thing i've personally noticed with weed smokers is they tend to forget things and always say 'dunno' 'whatever' when you ask them something; not good from an operations standpoint
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Its irrelevant whether alchohol is bad or not. Ever hear about alchohol prohibition in the states? We dont want to go down that path. Anyway, its not the governments job to say what we can and cant put in our bodies.

    Back in the 50s/60s when there were only about 500 heroin addicts in the UK who all recieved prescriptions there are accounts of some of these users dosing over 10 times a day with no problems, which if you talk to even the most hardcore heroin user is risk ****, back then it wasnt. Right now if you buy heroin on the street the quality isnt going to be great and its going to be cut with other ****.

    High quality heroin has 2 side effects. Addiction and constipation. I suggest you read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies if you want to see the mess the government made with Heroin. I cant remember specifics but some mothers rights group wanted it to be banned so the government banned it, a decade later and a black market had sprung up and we had 10s of thousands of addicts.

    Prohibition has done far more harm than any illegal drug ever has.
    Speaking of alcohol prohibition, it exists in these countries:


    Afghanistan (don't count this as Afghanistan is a mess)
    Bangladesh (I very much doubt this)
    Brunei
    Iran
    Kuwait (I doubt this as Kuwait is opening up for tourism)
    Libya (don't count this as it is also a mess)
    Saudi Arabia
    Sudan
    Yemen

    5 out of 9
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    There ability to be easily taxed by the government ;-)


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    (Original post by ronki23)
    Speaking of alcohol prohibition, it exists in these countries:


    Afghanistan (don't count this as Afghanistan is a mess)
    Bangladesh (I very much doubt this)
    Brunei
    Iran
    Kuwait (I doubt this as Kuwait is opening up for tourism)
    Libya (don't count this as it is also a mess)
    Saudi Arabia
    Sudan
    Yemen

    5 out of 9
    Would you say the UK is more similar to Saudi Arabia or America?
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Would you say the UK is more similar to Saudi Arabia or America?
    UK is more similar to today's America. I have a friend who was in the army and he says the Americans don't drink as much/are shocked at how much Brits drink but then again it's a state thing I assume; places like Texas would have more drunkards than Illinois?
    I know Scots and Irish drink more than English too; the Irish (don't quote me here) don't seem to get as drunk or into trouble (or maybe I like Irish people for no reason)
    Germans drink like horses but they seem to have a high threshold (I had a lot of German friends though I don't know how German they really were: one wore an England football shirt, one's Grandfather is Scottish and the other is genetically Iranian and I don't really consider him a friend anyway so maybe these guys aren't really German LOL
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    I know opiods like morphine,demerol and propofol are extremely addictive though. A close relative of mine had cancer which was supposed to be benign (or I was lied to) and in the last 3 months of her life her arm began to hurt more and more (cancer in the cartilage of the shoulder) so she became more and more addicted to morphine. C.O.D was 'old age' and a notable medical problem was 'ischaemic heart disease' but i'm sure either the cancer or the morphine addiction killed her (in the last 2 weeks of her life she used to sleep far too much [over 18 hours a day], she stopped breathing one day and the days she was awake she was screaming in pain for morphine; even lower dosage by syringe didn't help)

    As for the other opiods, I recall demerol and propofol killing Michael Jackson (was it a combination of both?). Same applies for Heath Ledger?

    I'm not a fan of opiods
    Opiate withdrawal sucks, it can kill you if you are used to really high doses and you immediately try and go cold turkey, you have to wind down the dosage. As I said, addiction is one of the side effects. I dont really understand what your trying to get across, my points are all still correct.

    I had/have an opiate abuse problem myself and have lost a couple of friends to it. I've done plenty of research into the subject and I still think prohibition is stupid.
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    Nothing, if they were discovered today they'd be illegal. But humans are always going to look for mild-altering substances so there you go.
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Opiate withdrawal sucks, it can kill you if you are used to really high doses and you immediately try and go cold turkey, you have to wind down the dosage. As I said, addiction is one of the side effects. I dont really understand what your trying to get across, my points are all still correct.

    I had/have an opiate abuse problem myself and have lost a couple of friends to it. I've done plenty of research into the subject and I still think prohibition is stupid.
    But do really high dosages make you sleep too much/shut down your breathing (like in the case of the relative and two celebrities)? Or is that from cancer (though Ledger and MJ did not have cancer)?

    I'm sure there are alternatives to opiods for medical treatment? If I had family I had control over (alas I was 17 when my relative died and nobody listens to me) I would try to find an alternative for them.

    Speaking of prohibition and abuse of recreational use, wasn't that high profile case in 2001/2002 with the girl proven not to be down to heroin alone? The death picture creeped me out, the girl died on all 4s?
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    (Original post by aspirinpharmacist)
    Nothing, if they were discovered today they'd be illegal. But humans are always going to look for mild-altering substances so there you go.
    Marijuana and poppies were discovered long ago O_0
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    Legalisation doesn't necessarily have to mean a bad thing...look at Portugal for an example where legalisation might work
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    But do really high dosages make you sleep too much/shut down your breathing (like in the case of the relative and two celebrities)? Or is that from cancer (though Ledger and MJ did not have cancer)?

    I'm sure there are alternatives to opiods for medical treatment? If I had family I had control over (alas I was 17 when my relative died and nobody listens to me) I would try to find an alternative for them.

    Speaking of prohibition and abuse of recreational use, wasn't that high profile case in 2001/2002 with the girl proven not to be down to heroin alone? The death picture creeped me out, the girl died on all 4s?
    I'm sure if you pop 50 oxys you would die but no one uses that kind of dose recreationally or medicinally. Unless you are intentionally having really really high doses there isnt much to worry about.

    I experiment with plenty of drugs and opiates are pretty powerful. I've never come across something that was advertised as a painkiller that came close to opiates. But then again I'm no doctor.
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    Though i'm interested in why one can't OD on good quality heroin
    A large percentage of heroin overdoses occur due to unreliable purity; a heroin user buying unregulated illicit heroin doesn't really know what they're getting because various cutting agents are often used which reduce the strength of the dose. This coupled with the fact that users quickly develop a tolerance, and therefore require a higher and higher dose to achieve the same rush, means that a user will increase their dose when an impure batch fails to give them the desired high. Then, if the next batch they buy turns out to be of a much higher purity (and strength), they will take the same dose as they did with the impure batch and will consequently overdose. In contrast, regulated heroin or diamorphine, to give it its medical name, is of a reliable purity and strength. This obviously isn't to say that "one can't overdose on good quality heroin", but it certainly makes accidental overdoses much less likely.
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    (Original post by ronki23)

    As for the other opiods, I recall demerol and propofol killing Michael Jackson (was it a combination of both?). Same applies for Heath Ledger?

    I'm not a fan of opiods
    Propofol killed Michael Jackson. There was no Demerol in his system when he died.
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    But why did they choose those two things as opposed to other drugs? Even when people say Marijuana should be legalised due to not having drawbacks (which it does) you could argue other drugs like speed and cocaine have benefits too.
    Plus why is smoking the only confirmed cancer causer? Asbestos too I guess but there are plenty of other things claimed to cause caner.

    Btw-i've also smoked a couple of times (Shisha) and drank but have given both things up in pursuit of a studly physique and wanting to be good at martial arts (including MMA if I ever get good at individual styles)!!!!!
    Fair enough. I wouldn't personally take cocaine(due to it's price mainly and the riskyness) it's not a very long high compared to ecstacy so you'll be having to go into the toilets every hour.

    (Original post by Suetonius)
    They're the biggest killers out there, so nothing. Possession of all drugs should be decriminalized, and anything that is provably safer than/on par with alcohol - weed, MDMA/ecstasy, LSD, psilocybin, ket, maybe coke - should be made legal and readily available, although controlled, in order to curb alcohol use and reduce the number of deaths caused by said poison.
    Agree man. Not coke, that's a risky substance unless it's from the leaf. Ket is a weird substance. I don't see the benefits of taking it. It's sedatory and that's it but when in a bad zone on ket you can't get out of it.
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Opiate withdrawal sucks, it can kill you if you are used to really high doses and you immediately try and go cold turkey
    Unlikely and not directly, unlike alcohol.
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    (Original post by DankJ)
    Its irrelevant whether alchohol is bad or not. Ever hear about alchohol prohibition in the states? We dont want to go down that path. Anyway, its not the governments job to say what we can and cant put in our bodies.

    Back in the 50s/60s when there were only about 500 heroin addicts in the UK who all recieved prescriptions there are accounts of some of these users dosing over 10 times a day with no problems, which if you talk to even the most hardcore heroin user is risk ****, back then it wasnt. Right now if you buy heroin on the street the quality isnt going to be great and its going to be cut with other ****.

    High quality heroin has 2 side effects. Addiction and constipation. I suggest you read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies if you want to see the mess the government made with Heroin. I cant remember specifics but some mothers rights group wanted it to be banned so the government banned it, a decade later and a black market had sprung up and we had 10s of thousands of addicts.

    Prohibition has done far more harm than any illegal drug ever has.
    We remember the 1920's in america. Really they should just be allowed. Not all drugs but decriminalisation of drugs should definitely be done.
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    Because it's cool to drink and smoke.

    Not serious.
 
 
 
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