Why do people associate the B.N.P with nazism? Hmm I dont get it Watch

This discussion is closed.
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#101
Report 15 years ago
#101
(Original post by randdom)
I could swear that if some of you had your way we wouldn't have people coming into the country at all. The skills that are needed obviously aren't being filled for whatever reason so like I said why not allow asylem seekers to train to do these jobs and contribute to taxes.People in Britain don't seem to want these jobs if they did then they would take them.
I thought your argument was that we needed these asylum seekers to fill the skills gap. Now you're saying that we'd need to train them to do it as they don't actually have those skills.

Why do we need to train asylum seekers to do these jobs when we still have many unemployed/underemployed folks sitting around? And, btw I'm still not sure what skills specifically you are referring to anyway.
0
randdom
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#102
Report 15 years ago
#102
(Original post by Howard)
I thought your argument was that we needed these asylum seekers to fill the skills gap. Now you're saying that we'd need to train them to do it as they don't actually have those skills.

Why do we need to train asylum seekers to do these jobs when we still have many unemployed/underemployed folks sitting around? And, btw I'm still not sure what skills specifically you are referring to anyway.
The areas with skills shortages are things like long distance lorry drivers there are 80,000 jobs available there. There are also thousands of jobs in the catering industry available. There are other sectors of shortages too. What you have to remeber is that these jobs are not being taken by the unemployed people in the Uk, these jobs have been available for years and the British people aren't taking them. The jobs that are available need some training yes but not loads and if people in the uk don't want the jobs then why not yet the asylum seekers take the job an work to prevent the pensions crisis.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#103
Report 15 years ago
#103
(Original post by randdom)
The areas with skills shortages are things like long distance lorry drivers there are 80,000 jobs available there. There are also thousands of jobs in the catering industry available. There are other sectors of shortages too. What you have to remeber is that these jobs are not being taken by the unemployed people in the Uk, these jobs have been available for years and the British people aren't taking them. The jobs that are available need some training yes but not loads and if people in the uk don't want the jobs then why not yet the asylum seekers take the job an work to prevent the pensions crisis.
Where do you get your information? I cannot find any reference to a desperate shortage of 80'000 truckers in the UK. I've just done a search of "skills shortages UK" and can't find any reference to the trucking industry.

(The only real reference I could find was to the IT industry. However, the fast track work permit scheme that was designed to help IT skilled immigrants into the country has been abolished because it was shown to have put 30,000 Brits out of a job. Ooops!)

However, even if the Brit's are too lazy to do these types of jobs (which is what I think you are implying) there remains 300 odd million EU citizens that can already legally take these jobs without the need for immigration approval and work permits etc. Why not simply advertize these jobs in France?

I really cannot believe that the UK is crumbling for want of this many truckers and that if not obtainable from the UK's army of unemployed, then not otherwize obtainable from our EC neighbors who already have the right to freely work and live in the UK.

Please don't tell me our country is so desperately undermanned we need 80'000 Afgans to drive Tesco's trucks. I don't buy it.
0
llama boy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#104
Report 15 years ago
#104
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
There is no need for Kosovans or Afghani#s to be in the country anymore. They can go home.
Such empathy. Putting aside the fact that, for example, Afghanistan is largely in worse state now than before the war etc, and that Kosovan teenagers might be the slightest bit apprehensive returning to the schools where invading troops systematically raped them thousands of times, you're missing the point anyway.

Whilst Western foreign policy continues to displace hundreds of thousands of people through third world building projects that benefit only multinationals that build them, whilst it continues to force the third world to mass produce cash crops for western convenience and shrug when the price plummets and thousands lose their homes, whilst it continues to unleash and provoke wars throughout the world when it serves its interests, the asylum "problem" will only become worse.

The fact that problems in particular areas may clear up (although you're wrong about both instances you've cited) isn't really relevant. If we continue to cause these problems, we are going to continue to suffer the consequences.

The problem is in my area we put up lots of Kosovans, this was with the understanding they would go home when it was stable to do so.
There was an "understanding"? Was this written down, put as an condition in the granting of asylum? If so, deportation should be very easy.

No surprises very few have left, thats the problem with being PC and nice, people take advantage of you.
You'd contend that British asylum policy is "nice"? This being the policy that locks innocent people up for months, forcibly separates parents from children, and is one of the harshest in Europe? What exactly would you class as a "nasty" asylum policy?

We should have told them to sling their hook to a near by country instead of coming to the other side of Europe.
All of them? It would be hugely unfair to expect some countries to take all refugees, whilst we take none. Britain has a duty to take proportionally as many refugees as any other country. That's the legal obligation, anyway. Personally, given our level of development, I'd say we are obliged to help a lot more than that.

Furthermore, you seem to think that other countries seem to get off lightly. Pakistan, for example, has a refugee population of over 2 million and is far far less equipped to cope ( in comparison UK asylum applications were 61,050 last year). Needless to say, a fair number of those refugees are the result of the western attack on Afghanistan.
0
pedy1986
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#105
Report 15 years ago
#105
(Original post by Howard)
Where do you get your information? I cannot find any reference to a desperate shortage of 80'000 truckers in the UK. I've just done a search of "skills shortages UK" and can't find any reference to the trucking industry.

(The only real reference I could find was to the IT industry. However, the fast track work permit scheme that was designed to help IT skilled immigrants into the country has been abolished because it was shown to have put 30,000 Brits out of a job. Ooops!)

However, even if the Brit's are too lazy to do these types of jobs (which is what I think you are implying) there remains 300 odd million EU citizens that can already legally take these jobs without the need for immigration approval and work permits etc. Why not simply advertize these jobs in France?

I really cannot believe that the UK is crumbling for want of this many truckers and that if not obtainable from the UK's army of unemployed, then not otherwize obtainable from our EC neighbors who already have the right to freely work and live in the UK.

Please don't tell me our country is so desperately undermanned we need 80'000 Afgans to drive Tesco's trucks. I don't buy it.
I think the idea of a skill-shortage in the UK is apparent, especially in sectors such as nursing etc. Immigration from these countries is needed in order to fufill these. We cannot just advitise in France, because they don't have mass overload of these skills either.

Also, you have to consider that immigrats are also very entrepernuerial (in the main) hence contribute to the productive potential of the economy, which can only be good for economic growth.
Also you will find many immigrants are willing to take 'shadow economy' work, where the wages are low (possibly below minimum wage) and conditions are poor - and these people do indeed help the economy as a whole, because otherwise these jobs would go unfuffiled because current unemployed people are unwilling to take them.
0
llama boy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#106
Report 15 years ago
#106
(Original post by corey)
I think the idea of a skill-shortage in the UK is apparent, especially in sectors such as nursing etc. Immigration from these countries is needed in order to fufill these. We cannot just advitise in France, because they don't have mass overload of these skills either.
The implication being that some third world countries do have a mass overload of those skills?

IME, the opposite is true. Third world countries spend a huge amount of their GNP training up nurses etc for their own population, only for them to be poached as cheap labour by understaffed western countries.
0
hitchhiker_13
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#107
Report 15 years ago
#107
Can't remember exact figures, but something like 80 - 90% of refugees worldwide move from one third world country to another.
This surely indicates that the vast majority are truly leaving for reasons of safety rather than any kind of greed, which seems to be what some of you are implying.
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#108
Report 15 years ago
#108
(Original post by llama boy)
Such empathy. Putting aside the fact that, for example, Afghanistan is largely in worse state now than before the war etc, and that Kosovan teenagers might be the slightest bit apprehensive returning to the schools where invading troops systematically raped them thousands of times, you're missing the point anyway.

Whilst Western foreign policy continues to displace hundreds of thousands of people through third world building projects that benefit only multinationals that build them, whilst it continues to force the third world to mass produce cash crops for western convenience and shrug when the price plummets and thousands lose their homes, whilst it continues to unleash and provoke wars throughout the world when it serves its interests, the asylum "problem" will only become worse.

The fact that problems in particular areas may clear up (although you're wrong about both instances you've cited) isn't really relevant. If we continue to cause these problems, we are going to continue to suffer the consequences.

There was an "understanding"? Was this written down, put as an condition in the granting of asylum? If so, deportation should be very easy.

You'd contend that British asylum policy is "nice"? This being the policy that locks innocent people up for months, forcibly separates parents from children, and is one of the harshest in Europe? What exactly would you class as a "nasty" asylum policy?

All of them? It would be hugely unfair to expect some countries to take all refugees, whilst we take none. Britain has a duty to take proportionally as many refugees as any other country. That's the legal obligation, anyway. Personally, given our level of development, I'd say we are obliged to help a lot more than that.

Furthermore, you seem to think that other countries seem to get off lightly. Pakistan, for example, has a refugee population of over 2 million and is far far less equipped to cope ( in comparison UK asylum applications were 61,050 last year). Needless to say, a fair number of those refugees are the result of the western attack on Afghanistan.

Give me one good reason why they should come to Britain, especially when the majority originally live thousands of miles away. They do after all, have to cross an sea. Britain isnt obliged to do anything with barbaric people with no grasp of English. For the world to work people need to be exploited, I have no problems with Afzal from Afganistan living a underpriviliged life as long as he keeps out of my business. Soon as he comes to Britain and leaches, thats my business.
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#109
Report 15 years ago
#109
(Original post by llama boy)
The implication being that some third world countries do have a mass overload of those skills?

IME, the opposite is true. Third world countries spend a huge amount of their GNP training up nurses etc for their own population, only for them to be poached as cheap labour by understaffed western countries.
Thats life.
0
Bigcnee
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#110
Report 15 years ago
#110
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Thats life.
I'm sorry, but this simply isn't a viable argument when talking about the lives of the less fortunate.

It's so easy for us to sit here (on our computers) and ***** about asylum seekers, when most (if not all) of us live in luxury compared to the asylum seekers we see in our country.
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#111
Report 15 years ago
#111
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I'm sorry, but this simply isn't a viable argument when talking about the lives of the less fortunate.

It's so easy for us to sit here (on our computers) and ***** about asylum seekers, when most (if not all) of us live in luxury compared to the asylum seekers we see in our country.

My auntie teaches asylum seekers, according to her they love England because everything is so much better. We arent exactly going to give them 5 bedroom detacheds are we now.
0
llama boy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#112
Report 15 years ago
#112
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Give me one good reason why they should come to Britain, especially when the majority originally live thousands of miles away.
I just did.

They do after all, have to cross an sea. Britain isnt obliged to do anything with barbaric people with no grasp of English. For the world to work people need to be exploited, I have no problems with Afzal from Afganistan living a underpriviliged life as long as he keeps out of my business. Soon as he comes to Britain and leaches, thats my business.
You completely ignored all of my points, most of which in one way or another answer these objections.

With all due respect, I don't feel it is to either of our benefits for me to continue this discussion. You're clearly taking nothing from it, and if I want to bang my head on a brick wall I'll do it at a time of my own choosing.
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#113
Report 15 years ago
#113
(Original post by llama boy)
I just did.

You completely ignored all of my points, most of which in one way or another answer these objections.

With all due respect, I don't feel it is to either of our benefits for me to continue this discussion. You're clearly taking nothing from it, and if I want to bang my head on a brick wall I'll do it at a time of my own choosing.

Come now. I read and understood all your posts and disagree in the main although some of your points are valid I feel you are way too idealistic.

We have reached a point again, where like the BNP situation, where you have obviously no first hand experience of what your talking about, otherwise your views would be very different. Fortunatly for you, I do have first hand experience with both Kosovan and Afgani refugees, so have a much better prospective than yourself, but I dont blame you for being taken in by the media, well thats what they are there for isnt it.
0
llama boy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#114
Report 15 years ago
#114
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Come now. I read and understood all your posts and disagree in the main although some of your points are valid I feel you are way too idealistic.

We have reached a point again, where like the BNP situation, where you have obviously no first hand experience of what your talking about, otherwise your views would be very different. Fortunatly for you, I do have first hand experience with both Kosovan and Afgani refugees, so have a much better prospective than yourself, but I dont blame you for being taken in by the media, well thats what they are there for isnt it.
Are you claiming that the British media are, overall, pro-asylum?
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#115
Report 15 years ago
#115
(Original post by llama boy)
Are you claiming that the British media are, overall, pro-asylum?
Are you suggesting the only type of media is news based?
0
llama boy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#116
Report 15 years ago
#116
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Are you suggesting the only type of media is news based?
No, although I feel you have your concepts a little muddled.

Are you going to answer my question?
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#117
Report 15 years ago
#117
(Original post by llama boy)
No, although I feel you have your concepts a little muddled.

Are you going to answer my question?

Only you yourself know where you read such tree hugging crap. I cannot really comment on which type of media you engross yourself in. You clearly take waht it says seriously which is a shame.
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#118
Report 15 years ago
#118
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Come now. I read and understood all your posts and disagree in the main although some of your points are valid I feel you are way too idealistic.

We have reached a point again, where like the BNP situation, where you have obviously no first hand experience of what your talking about, otherwise your views would be very different. Fortunatly for you, I do have first hand experience with both Kosovan and Afgani refugees, so have a much better prospective than yourself, but I dont blame you for being taken in by the media, well thats what they are there for isnt it.
For all your bragging about the 'great school' you attended and the all-round education you received it seems to me sometimes that they failed you miserably!
Your lack of humility is astounding - but then schools sometimes are fighting a losing battle when they have to compete with their charges home backgrounds.

Now how do you like that? A judgement made against you as you judge all those people seeking sanctuary.
0
Howard
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#119
Report 15 years ago
#119
(Original post by corey)
I think the idea of a skill-shortage in the UK is apparent, especially in sectors such as nursing etc. Immigration from these countries is needed in order to fufill these. We cannot just advitise in France, because they don't have mass overload of these skills either.

Also, you have to consider that immigrats are also very entrepernuerial (in the main) hence contribute to the productive potential of the economy, which can only be good for economic growth.
Also you will find many immigrants are willing to take 'shadow economy' work, where the wages are low (possibly below minimum wage) and conditions are poor - and these people do indeed help the economy as a whole, because otherwise these jobs would go unfuffiled because current unemployed people are unwilling to take them.
Yes, there is a shortage of nurses in the UK. So what? We're talking about asylum seekers here and I'm pretty sure that most countries from which such people originate do not have an oversupply of nurses.

Onto you entrepeneurial argument. Again, you seem to have some trouble grasping the topic of this conversation. We're talking about asylum seekers, just one type of immigrant, and not immigrants as a whole.

Some immigrants are very entrepeneurial. They're the skilled and educated folks that move to places like the US to make their fortunes.

Asylum seekers are not generally skilled and educated people. Skilled people are unlikely to be asylum seekers. As I have pointed out before asylum seekers are a body of people who's own country doesn't want them. They are on the lowest possible rung of their domestic society.

Your idea that working in the shadow economy somehow helps the economy is ridiculous.

Nobody ever collects taxes from black marketeers and in addition, a large black market economy, made possible by low "cash" wages will drive down wages for the rest of society.

Black markets ensure that wages are low, conditions are poor, workers rights ignored, health and safety bypassed etc.

I also find it difficult how this idea is particularly attractive to the asylum seeker. Sounds like expoitation to me.
0
rIcHrD
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#120
Report 15 years ago
#120
(Original post by Collegestudent)
They would launch nukes at the blink of an eye...
Damn I wish I could do that ...
0
X
new posts

All the exam results help you need

1,828

people online now

225,530

students helped last year
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling about GCSE Results Day?

Hopeful (204)
12.73%
Excited (139)
8.67%
Worried (291)
18.15%
Terrified (364)
22.71%
Meh (144)
8.98%
Confused (35)
2.18%
Putting on a brave face (221)
13.79%
Impatient (205)
12.79%

Watched Threads

View All