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Pickpocketing: another dividend of multiculturalism? Watch

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    (Original post by Lampoon)
    I have (admittedly a while ago). I don't recall anything to do with pickpockets though.
    http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-pol...um-ukip-policy

    Have a quick gander if you so please, a points based system similar to Australia and Canada is what appeals greatly to me in the long run, it counters the post you made stating they will just come back whenever they can.

    Dont hesitate to take a look at their other policies. Lefties like to bash on ukip to those they know wont go and research the party themself.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I support whichever party thinks Nigel Farage is an overblown bigmouth and a far-right libertarian dressed up as a concerned regular guy.

    However, tbf, he can be entertaining at times - the same way Boris can, you kind of laugh at them as well as with them.
    Yeah, an overblown bigmouth who set up a political party from scratch and lost a small fortune in the process to give a genuine democratic voice to those who weren't being represented by ConservoLabour.

    He may be a 'bigmouth', but by God he's earned it.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-pol...um-ukip-policy

    Have a quick gander if you so please, a points based system similar to Australia and Canada is what appeals greatly to me in the long run, it counters the post you made stating they will just come back whenever they can.

    Dont hesitate to take a look at their other policies. Lefties like to bash on ukip to those they know wont go and research the party themself.
    I sincerely doubt that Romanian pickpockets will be filling in forms and attending interviews before entering the UK, I mean what would they put as their occupation, theft?
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    And you also forgot to mention you can stay in this country if you bond with your own cat.
    Rubbish. Much like the rest of your post.
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    (Original post by Lampoon)
    I sincerely doubt that Romanian pickpockets will be filling in forms and attending interviews before entering the UK, I mean what would they put as their occupation, theft?
    International crime rings are harder to operate in countries with strong justice systems and solid borders. There will be an increase in border staff etc.

    It's one of the party's core policies, you think what they do will have zero effect?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Have you swallowed another Ukip press release?
    I don't fully agree with the premise of this thread, but are you seriously contesting that the EU is undemocratic and/or corrupt?

    It has a track record in this field.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    International crime rings are harder to operate in countries with strong justice systems and solid borders. There will be an increase in border staff etc.

    It's one of the party's core policies, you think what they do will have zero effect?
    At the end of the day you can't realistically search every car, van and lorry which enters the UK, it simply isn't feasible with the level of traffic at a port such as Dover.

    Plus the Channel isn't particularly wide or dangerous (in normal conditions), people are already brought in via small boats, how do you propose to stop that? Place armed guards on every beach in the south of England?
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    And pickpockets prior to 1997? Prior to 1945?

    When I hear "pickpocket", I get an image of a young little white English child with a cockney accent and swift movements and fast legs.



    What's with all of this "generation immigrant"? If you were born here, you're a citizen, not an immigrant. Or do we call Boris Johnson, a third-generation immigrant or something, given that his great-grandfather was Turkish? What do we call Princes William and Harry, given that their father, Charles is the son of a Greek/Danish asylum seeker (Prince Philip).

    Uhm I didn't coin the word, nevertheless I think you need to look up the definition as you clearly haven't. A second generation immigrant means you're born in a country with BOTH your parents born in another country. A very valid label. I don't see the relevance to the topic but there you go.
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    (Original post by Lampoon)
    At the end of the day you can't realistically search every car, van and lorry which enters the UK, it simply isn't feasible with the level of traffic at a port such as Dover.

    Plus the Channel isn't particularly wide or dangerous (in normal conditions), people are already brought in via small boats, how do you propose to stop that? Place armed guards on every beach in the south of England?
    Its clearly impossible to stop all illegal immigration. However please offer an alternative solution to what Ukip's policy is. Instead of just hammering on the effectiveness of it.

    No policy has rock solid effects, that is what politics is, no policy works out 100 percent intended that is what politics is, but thats not an excuse for not doing anything.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I know crime would still exist, this doesn't mean it's a good idea to import thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals.

    If a random African country contained a relatively small % of English people but those people were almost exclusively responsible for committing a certain type of crime (say football hooliganism), nobody in their right mind would suggest that African football hooligans would take their place if the English were deported. The problem would be solved. It works exactly the same way with pickpockets on the Underground.
    Fair enough. But this doesn't mean that just because the criminals are immigrants, that immigrants are criminals.

    Nevertheless, I do understand where you're coming from - uncontrolled and mass immigration is not right. However, you must understand that such mass immigration was especially encouraged by the ruling classes and corporations - it leads to more profits and revenues due to lower wages and whatnot. So, you must know that mass immigration is not part of a covert grand global operation to "kill all white people" - it's greed, that's what.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Uhm I didn't coin the word, nevertheless I think you need to look up the definition as you clearly haven't. A second generation immigrant means you're born in a country with BOTH your parents born in another country. A very valid label. I don't see the relevance to the topic but there you go.
    But they're British citizens, born and bred; ergo the label is useless and negligible. Essentially, it is irrelevant - both legally and politically.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Its clearly impossible to stop all illegal immigration. However please offer an alternative solution to what Ukip's policy is. Instead of just hammering on the effectiveness of it.

    No policy has rock solid effects, that is what politics is, no policy works out 100 percent intended that is what politics is, but thats not an excuse for not doing anything.
    Oh I agree, something needs to be done. But throwing money at border control is essentially throwing it away. It's impossible to close a border, North Korea can't do it and they have a shoot on sight policy, the US can't do it any they are the single richest nation on earth.

    The solution is to target the gangs who make money from bringing people in, you don't think that your average illegal immigrant from the Romanian countryside is able to circumnavigate border control? Let alone have the means to pay a driver or charter a boat?

    However at the end of the day it is a war that can never be won. As long as London remains wealthy and crowded minor criminals will attempt to settle there.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    But they're British citizens, born and bred; ergo the label is useless and negligible. Essentially, it is irrelevant - both legally and politically.
    Doesn't matter if they're citizens or not, that's not the definition of an immigrant! An immigrant is someone who moved to another country - with or without a citizenship. The label is not a legal term and to say it's useless politically is nonsense. Second generation immigrants are faced with their own unique challenges. Poverty, unemployment, crime, housing, lack of good schools, cultural issues and other factors face second generation immigrants in a way it does not face (middle class+) White Britons.
    Stop being so politically correct. I'm not an English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish person fyi.
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    (Original post by Bey Taco)
    So because of immigrants the English have stopped pickpocketing and left the occupation to another race?

    I dont know what to make of your argument.

    All I can understand from all of this is that the native british seem to have prospered since the rise of immigration and given up these sorts of jobs to immigrants. You arent doing any favors for yourself here mate.
    Why do you assume there's a correlation between British criminals and foreign ones? If we deported foreign criminals we'd have fewer criminals, a law abiding British person wouldn't suddenly step into the breach to make the numbers up!

    My point is that according to the professionals Eastern Europeans are disproportionately represented when it comes to pickpocketing, so if we want to reduce this type of crime we should perhaps reconsider our open borders policy with the rest of the EU.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Doesn't matter if they're citizens or not, that's not the definition of an immigrant! An immigrant is someone who moved to another country - with or without a citizenship. The label is not a legal term and to say it's useless politically is nonsense. Second generation immigrants are faced with their own unique challenges. Poverty, unemployment, crime, housing, lack of good schools, cultural issues and other factors face second generation immigrants in a way it does not face (middle class+) White Britons.
    Stop being so politically correct. I'm not an English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish person fyi.
    But that's the thing - they're not immigrants at all - they don't fit the definition at all! They haven't moved from anywhere. They were born here - that's the point. They haven't moved from anywhere. It's not PC - even PC people use the term. I believe the term to be irrelevant and useless.

    Those "challenges" that you mentioned are only limited to less well off immigrants. My parents, for example, moved over some decades ago and never faced any of those challenges because they were already secure. But just because they were immigrants doesn't make the offspring born in the country an immigrant - because an immigrant is by definition one who moves to another country in order to settle there. Babies born in Britain haven't moved to Britain :rolleyes:

    It's not political correctness - it's about what's factually correct by definition. Also, just interested - would you call Prince Charles a second-generation immigrant?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    if we want to reduce this type of crime we should perhaps reconsider our open borders policy with the rest of the EU.
    But these criminals wouldn't be deterred by closing the borders, they would simply find another way. Look at the influx of illegal immigrants into the US, that border is heavily guarded and funded by the richest nation on earth, yet every year roughly half a million people manage to break through.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    So to suggest my party is now being used as a vehicle to draw attention away from the banksters and the 2008 global meltdown is a little far fetched to say the least. How did Farage know things were going to go this badly wrong back in the late 1980's?! He didn't of course, he's not psychic. Do you think there's a chance both arguments have some merit? I agree that the economy is deeply unjust and that our white collar workers have a lot to answer for, but this doesn't excuse the criminal actions of those migrants who come here with bad intentions. It's not an either/or situation, we can analyse both problems independently of each other.
    On this bit, do you not see a bit problem for UKIP here? Namely that all seats of power outside of politics (the rest of the Establishment) are inhabited by people who don't particularly like UKIP or its policies and will do all they can, which is a lot, to prevent them being implemented.

    The people who make up the upper echelons of the City, the directors of FTSE 100 companies; the senior civil servants; professionals (City solicitors, Big 4 accountants, architects, barristers, doctors etc.); editors of national papers; bosses of ITV, the BBC and Sky; the judiciary; senior staff of the Armed Forces and the Police; Vice-Chancellors etc. etc. don't like them. In addition they all move within quite small social circles (often went to school or university together) and thus can easily work together to stall, delay etc. UKIP's policies. You may argue you could just replace them, but these people are highly skilled and experienced, it's not necessarily as simple as bringing your own guys in.

    From UKIP's perspective (not somewhere I normally find myself ) even if they got a big majority in the HoC they will be essentially sat in a car without the keys, they're nominally in control of it but they can't get it do anything.

    I'm not saying this as a knock on UKIP, I think it's a bad thing myself, just that as one of the first anti-Establishment parties to come within even a sniff of power in a century, it's something it probably has to start considering.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    But that's the thing - they're not immigrants at all - they don't fit the definition at all! They haven't moved from anywhere. They were born here - that's the point. They haven't moved from anywhere. It's not PC - even PC people use the term. I believe the term to be irrelevant and useless.

    Those "challenges" that you mentioned are only limited to less well off immigrants. My parents, for example, moved over some decades ago and never faced any of those challenges because they were already secure. But just because they were immigrants doesn't make the offspring born in the country an immigrant - because an immigrant is by definition one who moves to another country in order to settle there. Babies born in Britain haven't moved to Britain :rolleyes:

    It's not political correctness - it's about what's factually correct by definition. Also, just interested - would you call Prince Charles a second-generation immigrant?
    OMG it's not that hard! Second generation immigrant means BOTH parents are foreign born. Read my post again. The Queen is British born so no, Chuck isn't a second generation immigrant.
    Those issues are related to 2nd g- immigrants, one anecdote or two won't change the fact.
    The point of the term is to show that a generation ago this family were immigrants. Your rhetoric seems to suggest that being labelled an immigrant is bad.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    Fair enough. But this doesn't mean that just because the criminals are immigrants, that immigrants are criminals.

    Nevertheless, I do understand where you're coming from - uncontrolled and mass immigration is not right. However, you must understand that such mass immigration was especially encouraged by the ruling classes and corporations - it leads to more profits and revenues due to lower wages and whatnot. So, you must know that mass immigration is not part of a covert grand global operation to "kill all white people" - it's greed, that's what.
    I'm not saying that all immigrants are criminals of course, but it doesn't exactly look good when a certain type of crime is committed almost exclusively by immigrants. It does suggest that the 'racist' right-wingers among us may actually have a point, the point being that multiculturalism isn't all about hand-holding and the sharing of cooking techniques.
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    (Original post by Lampoon)
    But these criminals wouldn't be deterred by closing the borders, they would simply find another way. Look at the influx of illegal immigrants into the US, that border is heavily guarded and funded by the richest nation on earth, yet every year roughly half a million people manage to break through.
    We're an island nation, the U.S shares a 2000 mile land border with a much poorer Mexican neighbour. I don't think your comparison is a valid one.
 
 
 
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