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Pickpocketing: another dividend of multiculturalism? Watch

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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    The programme on 4oD stated nearly all pickpockets were eastern european. What is the sense in moving to another country just to live in that country's relative poverty? Refugees its too some extent an understandable argument however in times of hard such as now, recession etc. Changes have to be made. Pickpocketing gangs are organised crime rings, that start from the original country, it has nothing to do with the person living in poverty, their purpose is to go to a country and pickpocket people, and send all the money and wealth back to wherever country they came from.
    I fail to see how any of this addresses what I said.
    Firstly, can you prove that all pickpocketers in London are from gangs in organised crime? What has any of this got to do with my point? I am arguing that it really has nothing to do with Eastern Europeans in general, nothing to do with immigration, and is actually not linked to multiculturalism at all.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Traditional British Values? So a hundred years ago, when there was a LOT of pickpocketing in London and no Eastern Europeans, what do you blame for it then?
    It has nothing to do with different values in different countries, and everything to do with the ethnic make up of London, combined with the number of Eastern Europeans below the poverty line. Those who pickpocket have mostly always been people in huge financial trouble, living below the poverty line; back when it was poor British kids living on the streets it was the same. Now, because there is far more welfare available and most people born in this country don't need to pickpocket, it is mostly people from other countries that do so because they are the ones who are disadvantaged.

    If you go to an Eastern European country you aren't going to be pickpocketed all of the time, so it's a ridiculous assumption to make that it's somehow a cultural thing form that part of the world.
    Typical leftie, are you aware that in Europe the overwhelming majority of cases of pickpocketing are from Eastern Europe. Have you even watched the show on 4oD.

    You discard the idea that they are part of criminal gangs when the gangs in Bulgaria and Romania openly admit to it themself?

    You're very very deluded to the facts.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Typical leftie, are you aware that in Europe the overwhelming majority of cases of pickpocketing are from Eastern Europe. Have you even watched the show on 4oD.

    You discard the idea that they are part of criminal gangs when the gangs in Bulgaria and Romania openly admit to it themself?

    You're very very deluded to the facts.
    Leftie? lol.

    I don't see why you are so hinged on this tv show on 4od, I thought you'd provide me with some actual evidence aside from that?
    I do not doubt that some pickpocketers are part of gangs, but you can't make generalisations about all Eastern Europeans based on that, and you can't even assume that all pickpocketers are linked to this because some are either. It's doesn't logically follow at all.
    My question was can you prove that all pickpocketers are from gangs? Or even that almost all are. If not, then the kind of generalisations I was talking about are false.

    No one has addressed the fact that we have had a lot of pickpocketing in London for hundreds of years, long before Eastern Europeans were here, and so it clearly isn't something that comes just from one of their cultures.
    It also has nothing to do with multiculturalism, seeing as that is very separate from immigration.
    I'm not deluded. Please, debate with me in a civilised way without the name calling, or there is no point in continuing.
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    (Original post by Josh94)
    I'm sure it is true and ill watch it later. Its happened because if anyone made that assumption or even hinted at it, they'd be called racist even if it was statistically true. With regards to the EU, yes it is largely responsible but so is the previous labour government for ignoring immigration for electoral gain. That party's stance on the matter can be summed up with what gordon brown said to gillian duffy.
    The EU in my view has reached its peak in terms of influence and control, i don't see it enlarging any further and if we do get a referendum in 2017, thats the same year as the french elections so the french will probably start demanding a referendum too and when they leave, no one can fill the funding gap and it will collapse. All the EU wants in power, thats why it is so willing to accept turkey and did so bulgaria and romania despite the fact they are very poor and all of the negative social effects they will bring to the rest of the EU.
    Well said mate, I'd rather you were PM than Cameron!
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    double post eek
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Leftie? lol.

    I don't see why you are so hinged on this tv show on 4od, I thought you'd provide me with some actual evidence aside from that?
    I do not doubt that some pickpocketers are part of gangs, but you can't make generalisations about all Eastern Europeans based on that, and you can't even assume that all pickpocketers are linked to this because some are either. It's doesn't logically follow at all.
    My question was can you prove that all pickpocketers are from gangs? Or even that almost all are. If not, then the kind of generalisations I was talking about are false.

    No one has addressed the fact that we have had a lot of pickpocketing in London for hundreds of years, long before Eastern Europeans were here, and so it clearly isn't something that comes just from one of their cultures.
    It also has nothing to do with multiculturalism, seeing as that is very separate from immigration.
    I'm not deluded. Please, debate with me in a civilised way without the name calling, or there is no point in continuing.
    What point are you trying to make, my argument is not to deport all eastern europeans my argument is to deport all the pickpocketers, i've had this argument with so many people, and they make a sweeping generalisation themself (how ironic) and think I want all Eastern Europeans gone, The topic of this thread was the problem of pickpocketing in London the title is a question not a statement.

    I am arguing that the EU prevents the UK from deporting Pickpocketers who have gained citizenship here, as many of the pickpocketers have. Ive argued this same thing with another person who clearly couldnt understand.

    What about your point needs to be addressed? Your referring to a time during the industrial revolution from a fictional book made by Charles Dickens, wheres you evidence of child pickpockets other than that? Yes it occurs but that was little kids who didnt have parents. Not organised gangs from Eastern Europe, the two dont go hand in hand. At least the programme on 4oD is contemporary.

    To end my point, Im not trying to prove ALL pickpocketers are from gangs. Read the second stanza ^
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    What point are you trying to make, my argument is not to deport all eastern europeans my argument is to deport all the pickpocketers, i've had this argument with so many people, and they make a sweeping generalisation themself (how ironic) and think I want all Eastern Europeans gone, The topic of this thread was the problem of pickpocketing in London the title is a question not a statement.

    I am arguing that the EU prevents the UK from deporting Pickpocketers who have gained citizenship here, as many of the pickpocketers have. Ive argued this same thing with another person who clearly couldnt understand.

    What about your point needs to be addressed? Your referring to a time during the industrial revolution from a fictional book made by Charles Dickens, wheres you evidence of child pickpockets other than that? Yes it occurs but that was little kids who didnt have parents. Not organised gangs from Eastern Europe, the two dont go hand in hand. At least the programme on 4oD is contemporary.

    To end my point, Im not trying to prove ALL pickpocketers are from gangs. Read the second stanza ^
    I made my point clear, you seemed to be arguing with me in some way, seeing as you quoted me, but I can't really work out what you've said that disproves my points.
    Please, point them out. Because you now asking ME what MY point is makes no sense.

    If you don't stop speaking to me in such a rude manner I simply won't continue this discussion. I'm not basing anything on Charles Dickens; I didn't say it was just children at all, not even mostly children, but there was a lot of pickpocketing in London's past so it isn't an "Eastern European thing" as the person I was actually speaking to is suggesting.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I made my point clear, you seemed to be arguing with me in some way, seeing as you quoted me, but I can't really work out what you've said that disproves my points.
    Please, point them out. Because you now asking ME what MY point is makes no sense.

    If you don't stop speaking to me in such a rude manner I simply won't continue this discussion. I'm not basing anything on Charles Dickens; I didn't say it was just children at all, not even mostly children, but there was a lot of pickpocketing in London's past so it isn't an "Eastern European thing" as the person I was actually speaking to is suggesting.
    Never mind, arguing on TSR doesnt achieve anything lol
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I pretty much agree with everything you say here. The phenomenon you're referring to is subsidisation. In the name of 'safety' the state dishes out incredibly lucrative subsidies to a select number of chosen professions. Take plumbing as an example. I worked in Cornwall with my dad for a few months last year and found out that he does a lot of Landlord Gas Safety Certificates, this is a legal requirement if you're renting your home out and at £50 a go for an hour's work (max!), it's a nice way to make a living. The thing is not everybody can do it though because you have to pass quite a few qualifications to become Gas Safe registered. In other words the state keep barriers to entry high and this in turn allows certificated installers to make handsome returns. I even accused him of being a Coucnil worker at one point! I think he understood what I meant.

    This model is replicated throughout all the professions you mention and more and it's bleeding the economy dry. I don't know if UKIP is trong enough to take these V.Is head on, only time will tell I guess.
    I come from a fairly different place on the political spectrum, I do believe in society and I do think it should help those who end up at the bottom end of it, but I also will be one of those vested interests (solicitor) and I agree. I don't get why we should protect those who really don't know need protection. I will have money and some influence in my job so why should the state limit people from trying to do the same thing? There's nothing wrong with me setting up some sort of guild which tests all members to ensure they have some kitemark of quality (such as the SRA) in order to help consumers, but I don't see why that should then be converted into a sanctioned monopoly which drives up cost and prices vast swathes of the population out of these services.

    50 quid/hour is the thin end of the wedge, I know I'll be charged out at 100 as a trainee, 200 once I qualify.

    There is the odd exception to this, for example Doctors, who both can do a lot more than financial damage if someone incompetent holds themselves out as one and whom, by the very nature of their work, you don't necessarily have the time to check up on the qualifications of.

    People within these professions who espouse the virtues of a free market are some of the most annoying I've met, equivalent to those on the left who get angry at any criticism of the state for being inefficient (logically if you believe the State can be a force for good you should want it to be as efficient as possible in order to do more good).[

    I know Farage is many things, but one of them is a commodities broker who recently dined with Rupert Murdoch, which doesn't necessarily bode well for breaking up these interests.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Did anyone else watch The Secret of the Pickpockets last night on channel 4?

    I had it on in the background while I was cleaning my room and noticed that every single pickpocket the police either arrested or questioned on the London underground was an immigrant. Normally they sweep this sort of thing under the carpet by saying that 'plenty of British people are criminals too etc', but the police actually admitted without prompting that most pickpockets operating in London today are from Eastern Europe, this despite the fact that Eastern Europeans are still are minority in this country!

    I'm sure its available on 4OD if anyone wants to check my claims.

    Is this yet another dividend of multiculturalism and our membership of the EU?
    Why aren't white British people who don't integrate criticised ?

    Or are they already integrated into society ? Even if they commit crime ?

    Why is integration only an issue for certain groups and not others ?
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    You do realise pick pocketing has been going on since time immemorial right? It's basically a time honoured tradition.
 
 
 
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