The nice guy syndrome. watch

tomclarky · 20-03-2013 21:29

Sometimes i worry if i'm falling into the 'nice guy' trap. I'm not really the needy and submissive type, but i'm not particularly assertive or dominant either.

Can anyone give examples of how to start becoming more assertive in social scenario's?

Ham22 · 20-03-2013 21:42

Wtf is this ****.

MMMMMmmmmmmMMMmm cut me off a piece of *******.

Pleonasm · 20-03-2013 21:52

(Original post by Daniel_R)
I'm a nice guy and i don't do it to blackmail etc like you make out nor do i expect anything in return. I do it because it comes naturally to me. Theres too much generalization here.
I guess biggest problem with us nice guys is we also make a good doormat sometimes for *******s, but that doesn't change anything and i will always be nice i just cut them out my life and move on.

Just because it comes naturally to you doesn't mean there is necessarily a distinction.

Let's take two examples to find the distinction. Try to honestly think of what you would do;
1 - You are walking out of a restaurant (you are not in a rush for any deadline) and a waiter comes and bumps into you, spilling food all down you clothes and all over the floor. What do you do?

2 - Minutes before the beginning of a lesson, your friend comes up to you and explains that they haven't done their homework, and asks you to say you haven't done it either so they won't get in as much trouble. What do you say?

Spoiler:
Show

1 - this is a natural reaction that depends on the individual. If someone is a genuinely nice guy, they tell the waiter not to worry about it and then help the waiter to clear up some of the mess. If someone is just insecure and puts on his 'nice guy' persona because he is needy or has bad boundaries then they will tell the waiter it's fine, then go outside and curse the waiter for ruining their clothes and go home in a fowl mood. If you aren't either, you'd just yell an insult at the waiter and storm out.

2 - this is a test of how well you are able to stand up for yourself. If someone else has messed up or has been complacent, then that is their fault and you need to tell them that they should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof). This has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice guy, and everything to do with helping people out and sticking up for yourself and sticking up for doing the right thing. If someone wants help with their homework that is a different matter, but it is wrong of a friend to expect you to do their jobs for them or to always cover their ass.

You may also want to think about whether your answer would change if the "friend" was a girl (or boy) instead (it shouldn't change!)

2 is also an example of a bad/ unhealthy friendship. Another example would be two friends who say things about each other behind each other's backs but seem to be fine when they are together. It's better to either fix these and have a genuine, mutual friendship or to steer clear altogether.

Whether or not something is natural has no bearing on whether it is right, or whether it is optimal. Being lazy might come naturally to me, but that doesn't mean I should resign myself to being lazy.

Pigling · 20-03-2013 21:53

(Original post by tomclarky)
Sometimes i worry if i'm falling into the 'nice guy' trap. I'm not really the needy and submissive type, but i'm not particularly assertive or dominant either.

Can anyone give examples of how to start becoming more assertive in social scenario's?

You wont fall into the "Nice Guy" trap unless you having nothing real to offer but seem to think you deserve it all! As you seem like a genuinely nice guy I very much doubt this is the case!

There are women who like a guy to be shy and sweet. I think it's just important to have a genuine, pleasant personality of any kind whether this is dominant or unassertive. I guess you need some confidence to meet new people, let them get to know you and show your feelings - but that comes from liking yourself, being able to take a chance, and not beating yourself up too much if it doesn't work out so that it isn't such a huge risk to have a try.

Daniel_R · 20-03-2013 21:54

(Original post by Pleonasm)
Just because it comes naturally to you doesn't mean there is necessarily a distinction.

Let's take two examples to find the distinction. Try to honestly think of what you would do;
1 - You are walking out of a restaurant (you are not in a rush for any deadline) and a waiter comes and bumps into you, spilling food all down you clothes and all over the floor. What do you do?

2 - Minutes before the beginning of a lesson, your friend comes up to you and explains that they haven't done their homework, and asks you to say you haven't done it either. What do you say?

Spoiler:
Show

1 - this is a natural reaction that depends on the individual. If someone is a genuinely nice guy, they tell the waiter not to worry about it and then help the waiter to clear up some of the mess. If someone is just insecure and puts on his 'nice guy' persona because he is needy or has bad boundaries then they will tell the waiter it's fine, then go outside and curse the waiter for ruining their clothes and go home in a fowl mood. If you aren't either, you'd just yell an insult at the waiter and storm out.

2 - this is a test of how well you are able to stand up for yourself. If someone else has messed up or has been complacent, then that is their fault and you need to tell them that they should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof). This has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice guy, and everything to do with helping people out and sticking up for yourself and sticking up for doing the right thing.

2 is also an example of a bad/ unhealthy friendship. Another example would be two friends who say things about each other behind each other's backs but seem to be fine when they are together. It's better to either fix these and have a genuine, mutual friendship or to steer clear altogether.

Whether or not something is natural has no bearing on whether it is right, or whether it is optimal. Being lazy might come naturally to me, but that doesn't mean I should resign myself to being lazy.

1. **** happens she didnt mean to do it

2. No way thats his own fault

Goes with the old saying "don't confuse kindness with weakness"

Pleonasm · 20-03-2013 21:56

(Original post by Daniel_R)
1. **** happens she didnt mean to do it

2. No way thats his own fault

Well then you are fine. But just remain aware of the fact that there is a difference between being nice and being a pushover.

chocolate buttons · 20-03-2013 21:58

(Original post by Anonymous)
Yes. I had a male friend/acquaintance.. I was fond of him as a friend but felt no attraction to him. He was "nice" in terms of not being overtly arrogant, rude - the quiet, nerdy type.

The problem with him was that he just had no humour / flirting in him whatsoever, and there was something of a slightly wet/needy persona to him, he completely lacked confidence and never said anything of interest (very harsh, and I feel bad saying it, but true). When we spoke I would lead the conversation and he would agree with me, pretty much.

I realised that he might like me as he messaged me very often. So I tried to speak less to him, never flirted with him, basically gave vaguely polite answers to whatever he said (online). He still persisted with these bizarre content-less polite exchanges, to the extent that I really withdrew from them and hoped he was just leave me alone. An example:

Him: "How are you"
Me: "Okay thanks, quite busy. You?"
Him: "Oh I'm fine, had chemistry today."
... no reply
Him: "So how was your day? Did you have chemistry?"
Me: "Yep"

etc

Eventually he asked me out, and I politely told him no, that he was a nice guy but I didn't really feel we had chemistry and I liked someone else (true).

The way to get someone to like you is to build chemistry, exert you personality (even if your personality is relatively quiet/nerdy - some people love that, but you've got to have one!), be interesting/humourous/engage them, show your romantic interest in ways other than just awkwardly stating it. People won't fancy you just for existing and not being obnoxious.

Anyway - the above may all be sad for him but he ultimately hadn't done anything wrong to personally offend me by this stage. I didn't shun him, I tried my best not to embarass him, for him to not have lost anything by saying his feelings. I didn't even feel that awkward about it.

But the story doesn't end there. I started to date someone else (an acquaintance of him), a guy who was nice (values me, respects me, considerate, decent guy) but also confident, funny, and my equal in word play/flirting, with whom I had natural chemistry (just lucky really). At this point "Nice guy" began to ***** about my bf, claim I had been stolen, and it "wasn't fair" I wasn't with him.

Not so nice. He never had me, I'm not a possession, my purpose in life is not to fulfill someone else, it wasn't "unfair" for me not to be attracted to him, and my bf is not a jerk - that's pure jealousy.

I can't be bothered to finish this properly but hopefully people will gain something from that story. It's "Nice Guy" all over.

I had the same situation with a guy at college. Boring convos that went nowhere. When he asked me out and I said no, he started sending me threatening texts and FB messages, and would wait outside my classes at college (but that's another story!)

SeriouslySmart · 20-03-2013 21:59

Pigling · 20-03-2013 22:02

(Original post by Daniel_R)
I'm a nice guy and i don't do it to blackmail etc like you make out nor do i expect anything in return. I do it because it comes naturally to me. Theres too much generalization here.
I guess biggest problem with us nice guys is we also make a good doormat sometimes for *******s, but that doesn't change anything and i will always be nice i just cut them out my life and move on.

People are complaining about the horrible attitudes and falseness of certain guys claiming to be nice, not just all guys who are nice/sweet (which would be many of them)!

It's only the "Nice Guys" (aka resentful, entitled, fake) that people have a problem with, not guys who are just nice, they definitely aren't the same thing! If you aren't a "Nice Guy" (ie: don't have the bad attitude) there's no need to worry any of this criticism applies to you.

Daniel_R · 20-03-2013 22:05

(Original post by SeriouslySmart)

that is incredibly annoying that it auto starts

SeriouslySmart · 20-03-2013 22:06

(Original post by Daniel_R)
that is incredibly annoying that it auto starts

fixd

Daniel_R · 20-03-2013 22:08

(Original post by SeriouslySmart)
fixd

Cheers had me confused for a sec, thought where the blood hell is that coming from.

holmes221 · 20-03-2013 22:13

If you're talking about a nice guy in relation to girls, then you are an a**hole because just becasue you are nice doesnt mean she has to open her legs for you

holmes221 · 20-03-2013 22:18

(Original post by Anonymous)
Yes. I had a male friend/acquaintance.. I was fond of him as a friend but felt no attraction to him. He was "nice" in terms of not being overtly arrogant, rude - the quiet, nerdy type.

The problem with him was that he just had no humour / flirting in him whatsoever, and there was something of a slightly wet/needy persona to him, he completely lacked confidence and never said anything of interest (very harsh, and I feel bad saying it, but true). When we spoke I would lead the conversation and he would agree with me, pretty much.

I realised that he might like me as he messaged me very often. So I tried to speak less to him, never flirted with him, basically gave vaguely polite answers to whatever he said (online). He still persisted with these bizarre content-less polite exchanges, to the extent that I really withdrew from them and hoped he was just leave me alone. An example:

Him: "How are you"
Me: "Okay thanks, quite busy. You?"
Him: "Oh I'm fine, had chemistry today."
... no reply
Him: "So how was your day? Did you have chemistry?"
Me: "Yep"

etc

Eventually he asked me out, and I politely told him no, that he was a nice guy but I didn't really feel we had chemistry and I liked someone else (true).

The way to get someone to like you is to build chemistry, exert you personality (even if your personality is relatively quiet/nerdy - some people love that, but you've got to have one!), be interesting/humourous/engage them, show your romantic interest in ways other than just awkwardly stating it. People won't fancy you just for existing and not being obnoxious.

Anyway - the above may all be sad for him but he ultimately hadn't done anything wrong to personally offend me by this stage. I didn't shun him, I tried my best not to embarass him, for him to not have lost anything by saying his feelings. I didn't even feel that awkward about it.

But the story doesn't end there. I started to date someone else (an acquaintance of him), a guy who was nice (values me, respects me, considerate, decent guy) but also confident, funny, and my equal in word play/flirting, with whom I had natural chemistry (just lucky really). At this point "Nice guy" began to ***** about my bf, claim I had been stolen, and it "wasn't fair" I wasn't with him.

Not so nice. He never had me, I'm not a possession, my purpose in life is not to fulfill someone else, it wasn't "unfair" for me not to be attracted to him, and my bf is not a jerk - that's pure jealousy.

I can't be bothered to finish this properly but hopefully people will gain something from that story. It's "Nice Guy" all over.

I guess he (the opposite of flirty aka a man to a woman) would be described as if a room full of men and woman were all in mascot costumes/ had bags over their heads/ or some kind of disguise that would make it impossible to tell the gender and a voice changer and were talking to each other.

insignificant · 20-03-2013 22:32

I have just encountered this type of guy. I like nice guys, I really do, but this guy put me off because as soon as I said in some form that I liked something, he would tell me in some way that he felt the same, even though if previously he said he hadn't. He literally changed because of what I said, which freaked me out.

Some examples: He told me he has a few beers occasionally, I told him I don't drink at all, couple of weeks later he said he doesn't drink either.

I told him I don't drink energy drinks, he then states he's stopped drinking red bull.

I told him I cook all my food and don't eat takeaways, he starts cooking food and tells me he stopped eating dominos.

I liked the snow at first, he liked the snow. He text me a text saying look outside it's snowing! I text back saying, its March I'm getting fed up of it, he text back saying he doesnt like it either.

You get my drift.

Jabberwox · 20-03-2013 22:37

A couple of guys who have proclaimed they have the 'nice guy syndrome' who I've known, have turned out to be complete ****s because they want to bed a woman, get shot down then throw their toys out the pram and blame it on their ''niceness''.

Triple-Sod · 21-03-2013 00:10

A Nice Guy Vents;
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Nice_Guys

Blutooth · 21-03-2013 01:43

Even worse than nice guys are women, who think they are above pretty much above everything and everyone. The ones, usually, who like to ridicule and put down the 'nice guys'.

PatheticVirgin · 21-03-2013 02:50

(Original post by insignificant)
I have just encountered this type of guy. I like nice guys, I really do, but this guy put me off because as soon as I said in some form that I liked something, he would tell me in some way that he felt the same, even though if previously he said he hadn't. He literally changed because of what I said, which freaked me out.

Some examples: He told me he has a few beers occasionally, I told him I don't drink at all, couple of weeks later he said he doesn't drink either.

I told him I don't drink energy drinks, he then states he's stopped drinking red bull.

I told him I cook all my food and don't eat takeaways, he starts cooking food and tells me he stopped eating dominos.

I liked the snow at first, he liked the snow. He text me a text saying look outside it's snowing! I text back saying, its March I'm getting fed up of it, he text back saying he doesnt like it either.

You get my drift.

lmao i was like lmao

chelseafan · 23-03-2013 13:33

You mean *ugly guy syndrome.

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