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Who is better? Ferguson or Mourinho? Watch

  • View Poll Results: If someone held a gun to your head, who do you think is better between Fergie & Jose?
    Ferguson
    55.19%
    Mourinho
    44.81%

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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    So Guardiola isn't one of the great managers in the world today? Do you know what contemporary means? You made the link between him and being an all-time great, not me. And that's not what I've said.
    Yes, he is a "contemporary great" as you put it, but certainly not on the level of Ferguson or Wenger as you seemed to imply. Your suggestion that Guardiola is significantly better than Mourinho is also laughable, to say the least.



    No they weren't.
    No? Chelsea were denied penalty after penalty against them in the SF, they had at least 3 legitimate claims.

    No they weren't, United were, get your facts straight.
    Fair enough, my mistake.

    I didn't say he was lucky in every trophy I won, you implied his trophy record speaks for itself when it doesn't, if you analyse them a bit further they aren't as impressive as they seem at first glance or on paper. Inter were already great, to take over a champion team and win the league with them isn't as much of an achievement as taking a team that hasn't won the league for 26 years and then winning it 12 times in 26 years.


    I said almost every, since you did admit the 2010 CL was an achievement. Also note that Chelsea hadn't won the league in 50 years when he took over, though he did have millions of pounds on his side.

    Ferguson also probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful if he started coaching in this day and age, he probably would have been fired given his subpar start at Manchester United.

    Ferguson is better, it's that simple.
    I don't recall disagreeing with this. What I disagreed with was your statement: "Mourinho does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as managers like Guardiola, Ferguson and Wenger". When he is better than Guardiola and near the level of Ferguson and Wenger.
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    I generally agree with most of your posts but not this one. Not because you think Fergie is better. But you severely underrate Jose imo.
    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    It's clearly Ferguson.
    Fair enough if that's your opinion. I agree that SAF is the greater manager. But I don't think it's clear cut that he is better.

    Anybody who thinks Mourinho is better than Ferguson should be banned.
    Trolololololololo

    Mourinho is an average manager
    :toofunny:

    U mad?
    who uses his motivational skills and great tactical knowledge to good effect and then jumps ship before he's found out
    lolwut?
    and people realise he actually knows very little about football compared to the greats. None of his transfers are that great either, they're just a case of signing obvious great players who then develop at the team he's at.
    Fair enough if that's your opinion but...

    He doesn't know how to make a team play attractive football.
    ...yeah, u mad.
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    Countering my post with a load of pithy internet memes is just embarrassing.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Look at what Ferguson did at Man U, completely eradicated the drinking culture at that time, replaced all the staff, brought his own scouts in, changed the infrastructure of the whole football club including kit men, tea ladies etc. Brought through a team of kids having sold Ince, Kanchelskis & Hughes... look how long his success has lasted, he built the club from the ground up and created a footballing legacy. Mourinho hasn't.
    You're right here. And I've changed my OP and admitted that Fergie is better at building teams than Mourinho. And it's not like Mourinho actually built the R.Madrid team that won the league in 2011/12.

    Mourinho does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as managers like Guardiola, Ferguson and Wenger.
    :toofunny:
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Countering my post with a load of pithy internet memes is just embarrassing.
    Chill bro. I was just starting off with a humorous tone. I will give proper replies later.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    You're right here. And I've changed my OP and admitted that Fergie is better at building teams than Mourinho. And it's not like Mourinho actually built the R.Madrid team that won the league in 2011/12.


    :toofunny:
    He didn't build the Chelsea team in 2005 either, or the Inter team in 2010.

    As for the other post you just quoted, cool, no worries.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    He doesn't know how to make a team play attractive football.
    Alright. Let's start off with this one. If you read my OP, you will see that I mentioned a few example of Mourinho's attractive football (e.g. Chelsea with Robben, Duff and Joe Cole & R.Madrid generally).

    Are you trolling or do actually think that R.Madrid, for example, haven't played a lot of exciting/attractive football under Mourinho?
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    He didn't build the Chelsea team in 2005 either, or the Inter team in 2010.
    Not from scratch. But he made some great additions which pretty much took them to a whole new level. For example, with Inter, Eto'o, Milito, Pandev, Sneidjer, Motta and Lucio were great additions that inspired Inter to the treble. So I feel it's fair enough to say Mourinho built the treble winning team. Not from scratch. But still enough to make the claim imo.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Alright. Let's start off with this one. If you read my OP, you will see that I mentioned a few example of Mourinho's attractive football (e.g. Chelsea with Robben, Duff and Joe Cole & R.Madrid generally).

    Are you trolling or do actually think that R.Madrid, for example, haven't played a lot of exciting/attractive football under Mourinho?
    The attraction of watching Madrid is mostly down to Ronaldo's shoot on site mentality. They are good to watch at times but that's not Mourinho's doing. I would rather watch Barcelona any day, some people find the tika taka boring, fine, their choice.
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    Mourinho.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Not from scratch. But he made some great additions which pretty much took them to a whole new level. For example, with Inter, Eto'o, Milito, Pandev, Sneidjer, Motta and Lucio were great additions that inspired Inter to the treble. So I feel it's fair enough to say Mourinho built the treble winning team. Not from scratch. But still enough to make the claim imo.
    I did mean to type 2008 there. However those players were all great before they were at Inter which is what I touched upon before about his transfers. He signs obvious great players and then people credit him for it. Not having it.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Yes it can. Man U were in a transitional stage when he was at Chelsea and he had ridiculous amounts of money to spend there, money buys success, ask Blackburn and Manchester City.
    But money can't make you win back to back titles. Mourinho managed to.

    At Porto he was incredibly flukey to win the Champions League that year. Scholes scored a legitimate goal in the leg at Old Trafford, yards onside and was ruled out, Porto go through and the rest is history. Very lucky to get Monaco in the final as well.
    I couldn't remember this before but some fans in the past have said that a Porto player was fouled before Scholes' goal but the ref didn't give it. If it is true, then you could argue that Scholes wouldn't have scored in the first place.

    Also, teams generally get some luck on their way to winning the CL. Hell, teams often get luck on their way to winning any trophy. It's part and parcel
    of the game.

    And it's not Mourinho's fault that Monaco knocked out R.Madrid on the way to getting to the final.

    Italian football was still recovering from the match fixing scandal when he won the league there. Knocking Barcelona out was a good achievement admittedly but Inter had already won the league three times on the bounce when he was hired as coach there.
    Yes but Jose arrived 2 seasons after the scandal. That was ample time for teams to recover well enough from the scandal. And don't forget that Milan had won the CL not too long before he arrived. Also, before Jose arrived, Inter had only won the league by three points. That's not a great gap, is it? So Mourinho didn't have it easy to win back to back league titles with Inter. Even when he won the league in 2010, it was only by two points (although you could argue that the distraction of the CL was partly responsible).

    When you're at a team for 25+ years you will inevitably get it wrong sometimes. Both Ferguson and Wenger are superior to Mourinho in terms of the transfers they've made, don't kid yourself.
    I don't agree. The whole point of a transfer market is to improve upon your currently existing squad. Mourinho did this generally well to build/tweak squads to win trophies consistently since FC Porto. He's just as good as Fergie imo.

    But I agree that Wenger and Fergie are better at developing younger players.
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    Find me a Mourinho transfer in the vein of Cantona, Schmeichel, Solskjaer, Vidic, Hernandez...

    I'd mention Ronaldo but wasn't he already hotly tipped around Europe and turned down by Arsenal and Liverpool before Man U got him?

    The only position Ferguson has been poor in the transfer market is midfield. It's been error after error there near enough apart from Carrick and Keane.
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    Ugh, just ignore him. He's either trolling or incredibly stupid.
    Everybody who has even an ounce of knowledge of the game would recognise what Mourinho has given back to the game and wouldn't come out with drivel sick as "Madrid don't play attractive football".
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    I did mean to type 2008 there. However those players were all great before they were at Inter which is what I touched upon before about his transfers. He signs obvious great players and then people credit him for it. Not having it.
    I think we have contrasting view about the purpose of a transfer market. You seem to believe that the point of a transfer market is to sign an unknown player or a player with potential and then develop said player into a quality player. In that case, I can see why you don't think Jose is good at building teams.

    But I think you need to distinguish between what I believe is the whole point of the transfer market and the ability to develop a player.

    I believe the whole point of the transfer market is to improve upon your currently existing squad. Whether the player is already an established one or the player is just one with potential to be developed, as long as the squad is improved, that's all that matters. And the ultimate sign of an improvement to a team is the progress they make.

    And as far as I'm concerned, winning the first CL title in 45 years for a club (Inter) within the space of two seasons is incredible progress.

    Most of Mourinho's signings have helped him win his success. So as far as I'm concerned, Mourinho has done a good job in the transfer market and built good teams (albeit not from scratch).

    And how many people in England knew about Deco, Carvalho, Fereira and Maniche before Mourinho signed them to Porto? What about Varane at Madrid?

    Not bad from Mourinho, eh?

    However, I agree that Wenger and Fergie are better at seeing talent in unknown/unproven young players and developing them into superstars. But that isn't the whole point of the transfer market imo.

    Edit: I made a mistake. Deco and Carvalho weren't signed by Mourinho to Porto.
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    Are you serious? Deco was already a European Cup winner and it was Scolari who signed him for Chelsea. Mourinho didn't join Porto until 2002 and Deco was already at Porto then.

    Ferguson has had his hands tied and still challenges for the top honours. He saw off Mourinho at Chelsea, Rafa at Liverpool and the billions of Man. City.

    You cannot use transfers as to why Mourinho is good, if Mancini signed Messi it'd improve the team but you couldn't use it as evidence of him being good in the transfer market because everyone and their nan knows Messi is good and every manager in the world would sign him if they could. That goes for pretty much all the players you named, Varane aside.
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    Varane was noticed by United, linked with them for years, just not bought. So his potential was noticed, he just wasn't brought into the squad.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    The attraction of watching Madrid is mostly down to Ronaldo's shoot on site mentality. They are good to watch at times but that's not Mourinho's doing. I would rather watch Barcelona any day, some people find the tika taka boring, fine, their choice.
    It's not just Ronaldo's shoot on sight. Mourinho has set up some counter-attacking tactics for Madrid that has allowed them to unleash some devasting and eye-pleasing counter-attacks through Ronaldo, Di Maria and Ozil. Of course, either of Benzema or Higuain also play their parts. They're also capable of quick one-twos around the box, especially with Marcelo joining in from the left and quick feet from Ozil and Ronaldo. They can use wingplay to score exciting goals as Alonso pings a delicious long pass range from deep to someone like Di Maria, who will proceed to cross in the box for someone like Ronaldo to header it in or for Benzema to volley it in. Additionally, Di Maria and Ozil have served up some incredible defence splitting throughballs/passes to set up the likes of Benzema/Ronaldo. It seems like Mourinho knows what he's doing and has played a part in R.Madrid style of football.

    Even if you don't agree, what about Mourinho's Chelsea between 04 and 06? Robben and Duff were eating up fullbacks for breakfast. J.Cole trickery and magic was a pleasure to watch. Lampard and Tiago were very good too. They were entertaining to me.

    Did you watch much of Inter under Mourinho? Especially in 09/10? I have a lot of DVDs of their games and they played some very entertaining/attractive football imo. They could play almost any style of football they wanted and did. A lot of their football was possession based but also direct. Mourinho played his part in that.

    Ultimately, attractive football is entirely subjective. So we can agree to disagree. And so what if a team doesn't play attractive football if they're winning trophies? History records don't record all teams that play eye-pleasing football. History records record winners.
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    (Original post by _HabibaH_)
    Varane was noticed by United, linked with them for years, just not bought. So his potential was noticed, he just wasn't brought into the squad.
    He was but the reason I said "Varane aside" was because unless Varane snubbed Man U then that goes down as a Fergie **** up in my book which would back up Cable's argument.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    He was but the reason I said "Varane aside" was because unless Varane snubbed Man U then that goes down as a Fergie **** up in my book.
    If a player chooses Madrid over United or vice versa, it's understandable. Different climates, family preference, vision, style of play and pay (beyond means) are not things that the manager can control so if his decision included these factors, it's hardly Sir Alex's '**** up'.

    Madrid have done good with him though, while the likes of Hazard are festering away albeit a rare satisfying appearance.
 
 
 
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