Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

UK Monarchy LOL Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    In the recent days I have been hearing so many criticisms from British media and people about Russian government that I can no longer resist the temptation to make some counter-criticisms.

    Firstly, UK has a monarchy and all MPs, senior Civil Servants and even Army officials have to swear an oath to the Queen in order to be eligible to operate in their profession. It is 21st century and they have to kneel before a monarch. I personally find it completely at odds with democratic values. Like it or not, British MPs are partly accountable to the monarch, and this accountability probably even overrides the accountability to the electorate. I will give you an example, if I went on the street with a republican banner saying 'Remove the Monarchy because it is undemocratic', do you believe the police would tolerate it? Certainly not! In contrast, in Russia you do not have to worry about critising Putin or anyone else as long as you do not involve in violence.

    Secondly, do you think all this monarchy thing and swearing oath is just symbolic, for the sake of tradition? No, it is not just a tradition, it has its purpose. People may think that Queen has no say in political matters and people tolerate it, but the 'god bless the queen' propaganda is so prevalent in Britain that if she once said 'I don't agree with legislation' most people would think 'Oh well if the Queen thinks so it must be right'. I am not saying that MPs are just puppets whose strings are pulled by monarchy, but im pointing to the idea that UK is in no position to criticize Russia on any grounds.

    I dont wanna start debate about the UK constitution and electoral systems etc.

    Am I Russian? Yes, I am! God bless the Queen !
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    I will give you an example, if I went on the street with a republican banner saying 'Remove the Monarchy because it is undemocratic', do you believe the police would tolerate it? Certainly not! In contrast, in Russia you do not have to worry about critising Putin or anyone else as long as you do not involve in violence.
    You are wrong here completely. There are a lot of anti-royalists, a lot of celebrities who are anti-royalist such as Morrissey. They can, and do, say what they want against the royal family and they are not persecuted for it, and the police don't bat an eyelid; you are entitled to your opinion in the UK (albeit with certain exclusions).

    And you say you can criticise Putin in Russia? I think a lot of people would object to that.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-putin-protest

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...637538357.html

    I'm not saying the UK is perfect. Far from it, but let's be honest here, you are allowed a political opinion here and you will not be persecuted for it. We tolerate the BNP, even though they are hate filled racists (generally speaking), as a prime example of this.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    I will give you an example, if I went on the street with a republican banner saying 'Remove the Monarchy because it is undemocratic', do you believe the police would tolerate it? Certainly not!
    Certainly.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    In the recent days I have been hearing so many criticisms from British media and people about Russian government that I can no longer resist the temptation to make some counter-criticisms.

    Firstly, UK has a monarchy and all MPs, senior Civil Servants and even Army officials have to swear an oath to the Queen in order to be eligible to operate in their profession. It is 21st century and they have to kneel before a monarch. I personally find it completely at odds with democratic values. Like it or not, British MPs are partly accountable to the monarch, and this accountability probably even overrides the accountability to the electorate. I will give you an example, if I went on the street with a republican banner saying 'Remove the Monarchy because it is undemocratic', do you believe the police would tolerate it? Certainly not! In contrast, in Russia you do not have to worry about critising Putin or anyone else as long as you do not involve in violence.

    Secondly, do you think all this monarchy thing and swearing oath is just symbolic, for the sake of tradition? No, it is not just a tradition, it has its purpose. People may think that Queen has no say in political matters and people tolerate it, but the 'god bless the queen' propaganda is so prevalent in Britain that if she once said 'I don't agree with legislation' most people would think 'Oh well if the Queen thinks so it must be right'. I am not saying that MPs are just puppets whose strings are pulled by monarchy, but im pointing to the idea that UK is in no position to criticize Russia on any grounds.

    I dont wanna start debate about the UK constitution and electoral systems etc.
    Am I Russian? Yes, I am! God bless the Queen !
    Then why put it in the Debate and Current Affairs section?
    I mean are you asking a question and for opinions? Or are you just putting out a statement and telling everyone not to dispute you, even though this is the debate section?
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    In contrast, in Russia you do not have to worry about critising Putin or anyone else as long as you do not involve in violence.
    I hope one day the UK can become the sort of open, tolerant, free thinking democratic society Russia is.



    No need for emoticons.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    To be honest, if the Queen says she doesn't agree with legislation, the government would be wise to heed her words. She has by far the more experience than anyone in government at the moment, and is very much up to date with current affairs. To ignore her opinion would be plain stupid as she is the best advisor the PM has.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Then why put it in the Debate and Current Affairs section?
    I mean are you asking a question and for opinions? Or are you just putting out a statement and telling everyone not to dispute you, even though this is the debate section?
    It meant that it is pointless to discuss the UK constitution as UK doesn't even have one. And electoral system is backward.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    It meant that it is pointless to discuss the UK constitution as UK doesn't even have one. And electoral system is backward.
    Then why are you discussing it then if it is pointless? I mean I'm a republican myself, but you are not really making much sense here.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Then why are you discussing it then if it is pointless? I mean I'm a republican myself, but you are not really making much sense here.
    Sorry for misunderstanding. I did not mean I forbid you to discuss it, it was just a sort of 'rhetorical' point that there are more criticisms to make about UK democracy.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You can say anything against the Queen? Aye? Well, how come we have an elected MP to the House of Commons who's party that campaigns for a Republic? (I'm on about the Green Party).
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    Sorry for misunderstanding. I did not mean I forbid you to discuss it, it was just a sort of 'rhetorical' point that there are more criticisms to make about UK democracy.
    Ahh I understand. Yes, I would agree with you on that.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Manitude)
    To be honest, if the Queen says she doesn't agree with legislation, the government would be wise to heed her words. She has by far the more experience than anyone in government at the moment, and is very much up to date with current affairs. To ignore her opinion would be plain stupid as she is the best advisor the PM has.
    I have to disagree with you. There are certain principles in constitutional monarchies which have to be tolerated. One of them is not allowing monarch to influence the legislation in any way. If PM believes that Queen's advice is useful, he is effectively destroying the democracy.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    I have to disagree with you. There are certain principles in constitutional monarchies which have to be tolerated. One of them is not allowing monarch to influence the legislation in any way. If PM believes that Queen's advice is useful, he is effectively destroying the democracy.
    Taking on board the advice of an extremely experienced advisor does not destroy democracy. The fact that she is the Queen is largely irrelevant as the PM does not HAVE to heed her advice. But as I said, failure to do so is foolish.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hemalgangani)
    You can say anything against the Queen? Aye? Well, how come we have an elected MP to the House of Commons who's party that campaigns for a Republic? (I'm on about the Green Party).
    Oh really? Who do you think is the main campaigner for the preservation of FPTP electoral system? The Queen and her loyal Conservative MPs! The system guarantees her that those Green MPs will never present any threat to her as there will never be enough of them in Commons. Besides, did that republican MP swear on oath to the Queen?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExWunderkind)
    You are wrong here completely. There are a lot of anti-royalists, a lot of celebrities who are anti-royalist such as Morrissey. They can, and do, say what they want against the royal family and they are not persecuted for it, and the police don't bat an eyelid; you are entitled to your opinion in the UK (albeit with certain exclusions).

    And you say you can criticise Putin in Russia? I think a lot of people would object to that.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-putin-protest

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...637538357.html

    I'm not saying the UK is perfect. Far from it, but let's be honest here, you are allowed a political opinion here and you will not be persecuted for it. We tolerate the BNP, even though they are hate filled racists (generally speaking), as a prime example of this.
    Maybe there are individual republicans who disagree with it. But what about organised resistance and 'legal' protests? If there were some, would they be tolerated on the same grounds as protests against lets say an education secretary?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Manitude)
    Taking on board the advice of an extremely experienced advisor does not destroy democracy. The fact that she is the Queen is largely irrelevant as the PM does not HAVE to heed her advice. But as I said, failure to do so is foolish.
    I wonder why you think that Queen's advice is useful in any way? And why do you think she would not act in her self interest?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    The countries with a constructional monarchy normally top the democracy league tables.
    http://www.sida.se/Global/About%20Si...ex_Dec2011.pdf
    I find it laughable that you think that Russia is more democratic when there is repeated allegations of major corruption within your government.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alexh42)
    The countries with a constructional monarchy normally top the democracy league tables.
    http://www.sida.se/Global/About%20Si...ex_Dec2011.pdf
    I find it laughable that you think that Russia is more democratic when there is repeated allegations of major corruption within your government.
    Are you saying there is no corruption within UK government?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    Are you saying there is no corruption within UK government?
    I would hope nobody would be that naive or blindly patriotic. The recent expenses scandal would be case in point.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jozef161)
    Maybe there are individual republicans who disagree with it. But what about organised resistance and 'legal' protests? If there were some, would they be tolerated on the same grounds as protests against lets say an education secretary?
    I'm not sure I can find an example; but I am pretty sure there have been anti-royalist demonstrations in the recent past.

    I am not pro-royalist by any means; but for me they bring about a very nice tourism trade that the UK economy benefits from and let's face it, they do no have any real power.

    The queen would technically have to sign her own death warrant if the government commanded it.
 
 
 
Poll
If you won £30,000, which of these would you spend it on?
General election 2017 on TSR
Register to vote

Registering to vote?

Check out our guide for everything you need to know

Manifesto snapshots

Manifesto Snapshots

All you need to know about the 2017 party manifestos

Party Leader questions

Party Leader Q&A

Ask political party leaders your questions

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.