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I would like to see those who still support social security cuts repudiate this video Watch

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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Seriously, what are you on about? The man who worked for the council for 20 year was providing something of value.
    No he wasn't. The local council as his employer were able to force money out of local residents a portion of which was subsequently dumped into his bank account each month for 20 years. He laboured, but he didn't add value. There's a reason social workers have a bad reputation you know.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    No he wasn't. The local council as his employer were able to force money out of local residents a portion of which was subsequently dumped into his bank account each month for 20 years. He laboured, but he didn't add value. There's a reason social workers have a bad reputation you know.
    FFS! I've had social workers and can say there are some good and some bad out there. How do you know he didn't add value? Did you employ him?
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    (Original post by the bear)
    well said chefdave... some people think there is a magic money tree for anyone with a sad story
    Haha, thanks! Indeed, the state can't really magic money up from thin air much longer, our debt interest bill as it is dwarfs what we spend on defence. It's a very screwed up situation.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    FFS! I've had social workers and can say there are some good and some bad out there. How do you know he didn't add value? Did you employ him?
    If the state employs somebody to talk to plants and that worker works really hard at his job and talks to plants non-stop 8 hours a day in an attempt to make them grow quicker has he added any value? Please can you answer me this question.

    Wages and value aren't the same thing. You can earn a small wage while providing a lot of value and you can provide sod all value while trousering a massive wage (i.e Fred the Shred).

    What is so difficult to understand?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    How was I lucky?

    The fact is despite all my overtime this guy would have been earning a considerable amount more than me if modern social worker salaries are anything to go by, and after 20 years of salaried work in a reasonably paid job he shouldn't be in a position where he's living hand to mouth the minute he finds himself unemployed. It's ridiculous.

    Working 10-12 hours a day for an extremely modest income isn't lucky, it's a slog. I did it because I had to, and I resent the fact that you label my hardwork 'luck'. Winning the lottery is luck, keeping some income aside just in case is a sensible insurance policy.
    I actually agree with this. I think setting aside at least 10% of your earnings should be a priority. But I think financial responsibility doesn't even register to most people. There's a culture of entitlement. If you want something, save for it. Don't take out needless loans or credit cards etc.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    eh? Why wouldn't he be paying tax and NI?
    If I give you £200 and you give me £50 back, have you contributed to my funds?
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    Why is no-one talking about the main issue in the video... the fact that quotas were being set for the number of sanctions awarded? Whatever you think about the individual cases of claimants, including the guy in the video, it's quite clear that no-one can predict how many claimants in one month will be 'not looking properly'. So setting a quota on this is inevitably going to penalise people for something they didn't do at some point.

    xxx
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    well said chefdave

    One of the things my parents have taught me and my brothers is to put money aside and not waste it, my economics teacher echoed this when the recession was at its worst and people were losing their jobs. He said you should aim to have roughly 6 or 7 months salary in savings. If you lose your job you naturally make cut backs and can make it stretch a year or so. This chap clearly hasn't done this because he's ratching around in bins after 6 months and lets not forgot he most probably got a redundancy pay off which won't be too shabby after 20 years of public sector work so he's done absolutely no financial planning.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    How was I lucky?

    The fact is despite all my overtime this guy would have been earning a considerable amount more than me if modern social worker salaries are anything to go by, and after 20 years of salaried work in a reasonably paid job he shouldn't be in a position where he's living hand to mouth the minute he finds himself unemployed. It's ridiculous.

    Working 10-12 hours a day for an extremely modest income isn't lucky, it's a slog. I did it because I had to, and I resent the fact that you label my hardwork 'luck'. Winning the lottery is luck, keeping some income aside just in case is a sensible insurance policy.
    What do you work as if your u don't mind saying mate!

    60-84 hours a week is a lot!
    If the EU had their way you'd be capped at 40!
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    (Original post by blue n white army)
    well said chefdave

    One of the things my parents have taught me and my brothers is to put money aside and not waste it, my economics teacher echoed this when the recession was at its worst and people were losing their jobs. He said you should aim to have roughly 6 or 7 months salary in savings. If you lose your job you naturally make cut backs and can make it stretch a year or so. This chap clearly hasn't done this because he's ratching around in bins after 6 months and lets not forgot he most probably got a redundancy pay off which won't be too shabby after 20 years of public sector work so he's done absolutely no financial planning.
    That's true-I'm sure that man wasn't on minimum wage!
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    If someone gives you £20 and then demands £5 back in 'tax' you're still up by £15. The public sector works the same way. This guy has been clawing tax money all his life and reality has finally caught up with him. Shame.

    Ironically though due to our crazy welfare system he's done exactly the right thing. If he'd saved anything over £6k he'd have been panalised and if he had £16k+ in savings he wouldn't have been eligable for JSA altogether. Reckless fools like this are as much a product of the system as anything.
    wtf are you on about?
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    (Original post by a729)
    What do you work as if your u don't mind saying mate!

    60-84 hours a week is a lot!
    If the EU had their way you'd be capped at 40!
    I was doing these crazy hours a couple of years ago before my department closed down due to the recession. I was working as an electrical engineer for a train company. I can't be bothered to work those sort of hours now however (even though I work full time Monday to Friday and volunteer on Sunday for a local charity shop), it's silly when you can get a cushy gov't non-job with flexi-time for the same wage. Looking back this is what I should have done.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    wtf are you on about?
    Please don't trouble me with that type of response, if you have a point make it.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I was doing these crazy hours a couple of years ago before my department closed down due to the recession. I was working as an electrical engineer for a train company. I can't be bothered to work those sort of hours now however (even though I work full time Monday to Friday and volunteer on Sunday for a local charity shop), it's silly when you can get a cushy gov't non-job with flexi-time for the same wage. Looking back this is what I should have done.
    You should have tried to get a job in TfL-if you live in the South East
    They have good fringe benefits like free travel in London for you AND a family member/partner living at the same address!

    I can imagine you rushing around fixing faulty trains and tracks and stuff!

    I'm surprised they would let engineers go-surely that's as nonsensical as a hospital letting nurses go?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    He hasn't paid a single penny piece into the system. He's been a net recipient for the past 20 years because he was in the employ of the local council, and now he wants more cash!

    It's guys like this that give welfare a bad name. Whatever next, are the Guardian going to start making heart wrenching videos of former bankers and hegde fund managers who have fallen upon hard times? This guy probably deserves a few crumbs of the table, but we shouldn't let isloated incidents like this dictate welfare policy as the OP suggested.
    All your arguments are invalid up to this point. All of them are based on the fact that this man, in fact all public sector workers, were paid to do nothing which is ludicrous as he would've been fired long before he was made redundant.
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    (Original post by a729)
    You should have tried to get a job in TfL-if you live in the South East
    They have good fringe benefits like free travel in London for you AND a family member/partner living at the same address!

    I can imagine you rushing around fixing faulty trains and tracks and stuff!

    I'm surprised they would let engineers go-surely that's as nonsensical as a hospital letting nurses go?
    Haha, we were working offsite mainly: all the cables etc get made by a seperate company and then they're sent up North to Derby where they're installed. I went up there a couple of times to fit some CCTV cables which was fun. Didn't think about TfL though, good call. I may have a look at their site.
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    (Original post by Rainingshame)
    All your arguments are invalid up to this point. All of them are based on the fact that this man, in fact all public sector workers, were paid to do nothing which is ludicrous as he would've been fired long before he was made redundant.
    I think you missed my point. I'm saying nothing about his work ethic. I'm sure he worked very hard at his job. But social workers -imo- produce little in the way of value so in effect he was getting money for nothing. The council could employ someone to stand on street corners blowing bubbles at passing cars if they wanted and the employee could work extremely hard, but ultimately no value has been produced at the end of it. Nobody wants the service and nobody needs the service, it happens because someone at the local council thought it would be a good idea.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    If someone gives you £20 and then demands £5 back in 'tax' you're still up by £15.
    What a charmingly unsophisticated understanding of economics you have.

    That would only be a valid assertion if government employees were paid but didn't work. As it is, what is occurring is a fair trade between the state and an individual for their labour.

    Please explain how (other than in your parrallel conservative universe) that is welfare.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    But social workers -imo- produce little in the way of value so in effect he was getting money for nothing.
    That's right. In your opinion. In your very unlettered, tiresome opinion.

    What else do you deem is of no value? And why should we care what you think about the subject?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    (I work full time Monday to Friday and volunteer on Sunday for a local charity shop
    Should we bow? Applaud?

    How old are you and what course are you doing?

    it's silly when you can get a cushy gov't non-job with flexi-time for the same wage. Looking back this is what I should have done.
    Ha. Okay Dave. Why don't you post a link to one of these "cushy gov't non-job" so the board can make a judgement? Just one link. Shouldn't be too taxing, even for you
 
 
 
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