Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

Is the Swiss approach to guns better? Watch

  • View Poll Results: The best gun control system?
    UK
    45
    71.43%
    US
    5
    7.94%
    Switzerland
    7
    11.11%
    Other(please state)
    3
    4.76%
    Canada
    3
    4.76%

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    Our system isn't that good !


    In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms. In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s – after decades of ever tightening gun ownership restrictions – there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-thomas-sowell
    Surely we should also count in other factors like increase in population, decrease in employment, etc - not just the tightening of gun ownership restrictions.
    • Community Assistant
    Online

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Yeah, reduce gun crime by giving everyone a gun - sounds logical.
    Let's also give everyone a grenade - that should really do the trick of cutting crime.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    From the opening post: "Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to."

    This is so wrong. It doesn't have any base in facts. Women are NOT AT ALL encouraged to have firearms. No one is. Actually, nowadays Swiss men do not keep the ammunition at home and they are even occasionally encouraged to leave their rifle with the military.

    I hate it when people just talk plain nonsense about the 'Swiss approach'. We're NOT a gun paradise nor anything like that.


    Oh, and btw: we also don't have a 'gun culture'. Most of us do not like guns at all, and it is most definitely NOT normal for a young person to own guns, and it doesn't matter whether they're male or female. I know A LOT of really normal young Swiss people, and none of them would ever even think of getting a gun. Gun ownership in Switzerland is really not that high once you leave out the military rifles men had to take home until recently. And another thing: there are laws on how to safely store guns and rifles and ammunition at home.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    You can't look at gun ownership and crime in isolation from other cultural factors and think that importing laws from another culture and nothing else would re create the situation they have.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by green.tea)
    You can't look at gun ownership and crime in isolation from other cultural factors and think that importing laws from another culture and nothing else would re create the situation they have.
    That is something the anti-gun crowd should keep in mind when arguing that we'd end up with American levels of crime.


    Elcano, what canton do you live in, as some are more restrictive of what you can and can't have. From the sound of it, it's not easy to get a Waffenerwerbsschein where you are?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bart1331)
    That is something the anti-gun crowd should keep in mind when arguing that we'd end up with American levels of crime.
    ?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers_by_country

    It's the will to kill, which correlates with predisposition to war and such things. Add our killers to those of our colonies, compare them to the rest of the world and then talk about why the gun laws of a bunch of pussies would work here.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by green.tea)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers_by_country

    It's the will to kill, which correlates with predisposition to war and such things. Add our killers to those of our colonies, compare them to the rest of the world and then talk about why the gun laws of a bunch of pussies would work here.
    I was actually just pointing out that a lot of people say America has high gun crime, and they act as if the gun laws are somehow to blame for that.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bart1331)
    Elcano, what canton do you live in, as some are more restrictive of what you can and can't have. From the sound of it, it's not easy to get a Waffenerwerbsschein where you are?
    I'm in Zürich. I don't know how easy it is to get a gun license, but my point was that actually the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't even think about getting a gun. It's just not something an average Swiss citizen spends his or her time thinking about. It's not at all normal to be in possession of a handgun.

    Admittedly I've never visited the US, but I got the impression that over there, it's much more normal and widely accepted to have a gun. They actually have an active 'gun culture'. We don't, really.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elcano)
    I'm in Zürich. I don't know how easy it is to get a gun license, but my point was that actually the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't even think about getting a gun. It's just not something an average Swiss citizen spends his or her time thinking about. It's not at all normal to be in possession of a handgun.

    Admittedly I've never visited the US, but I got the impression that over there, it's much more normal and widely accepted to have a gun. They actually have an active 'gun culture'. We don't, really.
    Things have gotten stricter since the late 90's, and Geneva and Zurich are particularly bad areas to be if you want a gun. As far as I know, in most other cantons, it's relatively easy to get a waffenerwerbsschein.

    In 2011 there was a referendum on whether they should stop allowing people to have guns at home. 56% of voters and a majority of the cantons said no to this.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bart1331)
    In 2011 there was a referendum on whether they should stop allowing people to have guns at home. 56% of voters and a majority of the cantons said no to this.
    Yeah, but my point wasn't about how easy it is to get a gun. It was about most people not actually wanting to own one. At the same time, this doesn't mean that a majority of people want to completely ban private ownership or keeping them at home.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    Nobody wants to force anyone to have a gun; it's your right as an adult to chose.

    They are however, essential, everyday objects to some. They are an essential part of countryside management in the UK especially; species like deer have no natural predators, and the land needs to be kept in good order because we have altered the original wilderness so much.

    I can understand perfectly why some people don't like guns, have no interest in them or jus't don't want to be around them. To someone with little experience, or who gets all their information from a biased media, they are scary, loud, emotionally disruptive machines. It's also a fairly expensive hobby. If you don't like them, fair enough, just don't try and be a little dictator and take them off people who need them for their job or want to protect themselves under the guise of public safety. There are other solutions that can work for everyone.

    People who own land, or who like shooting for fun, or live in a bad neighbourhood where the police are minutes away are examples of people who want to own them.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bart1331)
    I was actually just pointing out that a lot of people say America has high gun crime, and they act as if the gun laws are somehow to blame for that.
    We have the same predisposition to violence as America tho. So we probably would end up with the same levels of crime as America has. Except they may have had an additional selection when those willing to wipe out the natives were more successful than ones who werent. Perhaps they all went north rather than west explaining the higher number of natives in the less violent Canada.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    Nobody wants to force anyone to have a gun; it's your right as an adult to chose.

    They are however, essential, everyday objects to some. They are an essential part of countryside management in the UK especially; species like deer have no natural predators, and the land needs to be kept in good order because we have altered the original wilderness so much.

    I can understand perfectly why some people don't like guns, have no interest in them or jus't don't want to be around them. To someone with little experience, or who gets all their information from a biased media, they are scary, loud, emotionally disruptive machines. It's also a fairly expensive hobby. If you don't like them, fair enough, just don't try and be a little dictator and take them off people who need them for their job or want to protect themselves under the guise of public safety. There are other solutions that can work for everyone.

    People who own land, or who like shooting for fun, or live in a bad neighbourhood where the police are minutes away are examples of people who want to own them.
    I think the debate on the UK is virtually hopeless
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    I think the debate on the UK is virtually hopeless
    There is some hope for the future.

    UKIP has expressed that it thinks that the UK's gun laws were rushed, so perhaps they will relax them. The other parties like Conservatives and LAbour, as well as LibDems and Green all have an agenda for disarmingthe British public.

    You could always make a unilateral declaration of independence, like the guy who founded Sealand and fought off the royal navy on a disused gas rig in the North Sea. He was brought to court on firearms offences, but released because they couldn't apply the laws to him; he wasn't a British citizen, or on British soil.

    You could also go down the Philip Luty route, and produce an SMG in your shed as an act of civil disobiedience to show the fallacy of strict gun laws.

    Also, if we suffered a total societal and economic breakdown, as we are likely to do at some point in our lifetimes (Dollar collapse, EMP/solar flare, overpopulation, pandemic etc), there would be no laws, and if you survived long enough to rebuild, you could use a set of rules that guarantees a right to bear arms.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    There is some hope for the future.

    UKIP has expressed that it thinks that the UK's gun laws were rushed, so perhaps they will relax them. The other parties like Conservatives and LAbour, as well as LibDems and Green all have an agenda for disarmingthe British public.

    You could always make a unilateral declaration of independence, like the guy who founded Sealand and fought off the royal navy on a disused gas rig in the North Sea. He was brought to court on firearms offences, but released because they couldn't apply the laws to him; he wasn't a British citizen, or on British soil.

    You could also go down the Philip Luty route, and produce an SMG in your shed as an act of civil disobiedience to show the fallacy of strict gun laws.

    Also, if we suffered a total societal and economic breakdown, as we are likely to do at some point in our lifetimes (Dollar collapse, EMP/solar flare, overpopulation, pandemic etc), there would be no laws, and if you survived long enough to rebuild, you could use a set of rules that guarantees a right to bear arms.
    firstly it was an old fort not a gas rig and secondly if he were to do that again they could most definitely bring him up on charges [or atleast his son since hes dead] since itswithin british territory.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cl_steele)
    firstly it was an old fort not a gas rig and secondly if he were to do that again they could most definitely bring him up on charges [or atleast his son since hes dead] since itswithin british territory.
    You're right on it being an old fort, but they would most likely not be able to charge him as the fort is over 3 miles off shore, so outside British jurisdiction.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    You're right on it being an old fort, but they would most likely not be able to charge him as the fort is over 3 miles off shore, so outside British jurisdiction.
    British territorial waters were extended back in the 90s [if i remember rightly] to 12 Nautical miles so now they [whether they like it or not] are subjectto British jurisdiction though.
 
 
 
Poll
If you won £30,000, which of these would you spend it on?
General election 2017 on TSR
Register to vote

Registering to vote?

Check out our guide for everything you need to know

Manifesto snapshots

Manifesto Snapshots

All you need to know about the 2017 party manifestos

Party Leader questions

Party Leader Q&A

Ask political party leaders your questions

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.