Christian B&B owners sued over refusing gay guests can now turn away gay couples

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A lot of people get into their heads that only gay people support gay rights, well I'm not gay so there you go :smile:

I know, it's much easier to look at the people who don't support gay rights (and always funny to hear their reasons for not supporting it), but they're definitely a minority.

Reply 201

minimarshmallow

Original post by Noble.

I know, it's much easier to look at the people who don't support gay rights (and always funny to hear their reasons for not supporting it), but they're definitely a minority.

Well I've yet to hear a valid reason against gay marriage, gay adoption etc.

Reply 202

Bluffroom

Original post by Noble.

The irrational fear of flying means you're possessed by satan? What did aircraft do to annoy satan so badly?

DEfy the laws of irrationality?

Reply 203

mstone12

aren't sikhs allowed to not wear police helmets and in the armed forces to if we give special treatment to one religion surely we have to to others .

Reply 204

kevin6767

Original post by minimarshmallow

You being unmarried isn't a protected characteristic though. It's also a choice and something you could do something about.
And obviously the law didn't agree with 'their property their rules', that's why the gay couple's case was successful and the B&B has had to change it's status in order to discriminate.

Again completely missing the point. The couple said they refused to rent the couple a room not on the grounds that they are guy but because they weren't married. Yes them being gay meant they couldn't get married but them not being married was the first principle they lived by. I'm sorry if you can't find it in yourself to consider that someone might be telling the truth rather than jumping on the everyone's a bigot until proven otherwise wagon. I am more than willing to consider that this couple put marriage above sexual orientation in their line of reasoning. I believe that God loves all humans and that it is my duty to consider that people are basically good creatures. Let's examine the evidence. There were 4 people at that front desk, the two owners and the couple. The owners stated they felt they couldn't offer them a room as they were not a marriage couple. They have insisted time and time again that they are not homophobic and place marriage in a couple to come above all else. They did not agree with two people sharing a bed outside of wedlock. The gay couple disagreed with this view and insisted that they were being discriminated against for being gay rather than unmarried. The There no other witnesses to this event, no one to state independently that a homophobic attitude was adopted. As you say not being married is not a protected characteristic. They feel so strongly about the conviction that they are appealing it. The judge made the assumption that because this was a Christian B&B owner and a gay couple the gay couple must be right as what other reason could there be? A belief in not sharing a bed before marriage wasn't even considered a primary motive or the only motive. Why not try opening your mind and consider that the owners may have been telling the truth? Why is it that the gay couples word is to be taken above that of the B&B owners when there is no evidence to support the claims being made? No recordings of the situation, no cctv, nothing. Like I said it is very narrow minded of you to consider that this is a one sided story and because gay people have been traditionally discriminated discrimination on these grounds are to be the only motive? The linked article is to the Independent so no doubt has a left leaning bias with little to no account from the owners. Sadly I doubt you will be able to consider a broader point of view and I will not only be wrong but in some way bigoted for daring to disagree. I am in no position to judge and nor is anyone else as it is just someone's word against someone else's with little backing up either. I certainly would never draw my conclusions based on a known biased newspaper.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 205

Stroma

Original post by Bluffroom

So the small minded B&B owners are once again turning away gay couples again, now by converting it into a Christian respite care center. It's crazy in this day and age.

I hope you know that Christianity doesn't support homosexuality, and religious beliefs should also be respected.

Reply 206

ufo2012

Original post by Bluffroom

So the small minded B&B owners are once again turning away gay couples again, now by converting it into a Christian respite care center. It's crazy in this day and age.

Nothing crazy about it and they are well within their rights as a 'Charity'.

The easy and sensible thing for homosexuals to do now would be avoid this place if they know they would not be welcomed! Simple!

Reply 207

DYKWIA

Original post by Miracle Day

It's their property, if they don't want to let gay couples into their home then they shouldn't be forced to.

First time I've ever agreed with you!

People should not be forced by the state about what to think. They were right to turn away a gay couple if they want to.

Reply 208

pjm600

Original post by DYKWIA

First time I've ever agreed with you!

People should not be forced by the state about what to think. They were right to turn away a gay couple if they want to.

The state isn't forcing them to think. They can't discriminate against a gay couple, they don't have to like them. Do you believe discrimination is acceptable?

Reply 209

satisfactionatlast

Original post by Bluffroom

The issue with that debate is that the straight guys are the ones who think it i a choice, but they don't listen. They can't even recognise homosexuality as being natural yet thousands of species show homosexual tendencies. The whole you can't blame them bit is stupid because it's because in society people believe everything and everything they are told by the media or people they trust. My history teacher played a prank on my history class by making up loads of ridiculous 'facts and taught them as the truth', i saw through it straight away as i have read v up on the subject before and went alongbut the rest thought it was serious. At the end when everyone left i confronted him and had a good laugh about it but it's shocking. People need to think for themselves not what others put in their head

you can't base your arguments on the premise of animals. We're humans, not animals. There hasn't been a study that proves humans are born gay. And it's not only media, it's religion too. Some people are brought up with certain beliefs. You can't insult their beliefs by making them choose or do something simply because you don't agree with it, and vice versa.

Reply 210

pjm600

Original post by satisfactionatlast

Do you think a gay person could decide not to be gay?

Reply 211

Bluffroom

Original post by satisfactionatlast

I never based my arguments on the premise of animals, it was a feature of my article. Also that argument is redundant as we are animals - we are a species of primate which are a form of mammal. There has been many studies on being born gay for your information. Go onto your computer box and google scholarly articles on being born gay there are many. Also, what the hell does 'its not only media, its religion' refer to in this situation - if it is about believing anything they are told i,have the right to criticism, as believing anything is ignorant and pathetic. I have the right to my own opinion on people's beliefs and when there are beliefs which are downright wrong such has being gay is a choice I will stand up for myself as those beliefs are very ignorant, insulting and its something that needs a response to. You make it sound like you also believe that its a choice

Reply 212

satisfactionatlast

Original post by Bluffroom

i have the right to criticism, as believing anything is ignorant and pathetic. I have the right to my own opinion on people's beliefs and when there are beliefs which are downright wrong

who are you to say what is right and what is wrong?

Reply 213

Bluffroom

Original post by satisfactionatlast

who are you to say what is right and what is wrong?

As a gay person who is not being posessed by the devil I can say that i am right in saying that being gay is not a choice and what he is saying is proofless *******s. I also gave you instructions so see studies which you already denied the existence of so i think bluffroom - 1, ignorance -0 ?

Reply 214

Hopple

Original post by Bluffroom

Sorry for my delay, I had a post and I accidentally deleted it as W7 forced SP1 update.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homophobia-exacts-a-chilling-price-as-hate-crimes-climb-2374674.html - it is increasing.

As your article says, it's likely that that is because homosexuals are more open about their sexuality, rather than hiding it away (plus perhaps an increase in the number of people identifying with a certain religion, but I think the solution to that is for another thread). Without meaning to slag off all old people, as older people die off, homophobia (as well as racism, sexism etc) will decrease. We may have fluctuations every now and again due to various news stories (this one is likely to piss people off, for example, and polarising opinion), but overall it's going down. Let's face it, if the gay couple this thread is about were to show their faces in a national newspaper like they did, would they have survived in a truly homophobic society? I seem to remember Nick Griffin publishing their details so people could go harass them, but the fact that it was the BNP and not a party which had a hope of getting into power so needed to appeal to popular opinion speaks volumes.

Also, gay people statistically earn 14% on average than straight people and lesbians ~20% more.

Indeed, homosexuals actually have more buying power than average so are at no risk of being excluded from the market. Plus, coming back to this being a luxury, any consumers looking for it will have the cash to splash so turning anyone away gives a competitor the opportunity to set up shop.

There is no need for me to do so, most if not all B&Bs in Cumbria for example wouldn't say no if I went to stay with a male partner and around 86% of Cumbrians are registered as Christians in the census.

Reply 215

SuperSam_Fantastiche

I don't understand Christians rights to discriminate based on "religious freedom" when the Bible clearly states this;

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

John, 15:12.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 216

Sephiroth

Original post by doggyfizzel

The issue being, turning away black people or fat people has no basis other than you just being a dick. Turning away gay/trans people not because they are dicks its because their religions, the religion of our state has anti LGBT views.

The issue isn't with the people, its with their beliefs. You come to a point where you have to force business owners to do something against their beliefs , which has far reaching ramifications for other situations, or you defend their rights. A present both sides have rights, which clash.

Tbh, they are in such a minority they should make them put up a sign saying no gay people or such. Then just as I would if a hotel said "no jews" I wouldn't take my business there. They can exercise their beliefs with all the customers they don't have.

So what makes a religious belief any more credible than a non-religious belief?

Reply 217

Bluffroom

Original post by Hopple

It's still a statistical increase, so in my book its an increase. Yes it's a minority ofbpeople like nick griffin however in places such as Cumbria - homophobia is extremely widespread. Especially in the more rural areas such as my town it is very bad and in Carlisle the only city in Cumbria I have witnessed a lot of people being harassed for being gay. And i have friends who have been - this isn't just isolated to Cumbria either. There may be improvement in areas, but others it is getting worse. There is a reason why I am being so slow to come out (which i am, but at a slowish pace).

So it's not a problem. Yes there are some idiots, arse holes and quirky weirdos in this world, but you don't legislate against it unless it is really causing harm - in this case, society and capitalism are more than capable of sorting it out.
It is a problem, if you ask most gay people they have most likely been discriminated against in some way for being gay. There are a lot of people you mentioned and there should be legislation as it covers a wide spectrum of people and it helps encourage equality abd cohesion. Without them you could be flagrantly discriminated against for something you don't choose which is extremely unfair.

Did you not see that thread or even the news story about the transgender teacher who killed themselves after the barrage of abuse from the daily mail and response from it?

Reply 218

minimarshmallow

Original post by satisfactionatlast

Erm, we are animals. You should probably clarify that you mean non-human animals are not 100% comparable, although we can still learn a lot from them.
You cannot prove anything to be true, only support a theory. And although it may not be true that you're specifically born gay or that it's a genetic thing, there is overwhelming evidence supporting the idea that it isn't a choice.
It doesn't matter what beliefs people are brought up with, if I was brought up to think black people were scum I wouldn't be able to kick them out of my B&B. I could also still hold the belief that black people were scum if they were staying in my B&B.