Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now

Christian B&B owners sued over refusing gay guests can now turn away gay couples Watch

    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bluffroom)
    It's still a statistical increase, so in my book its an increase. Yes it's a minority ofbpeople like nick griffin however in places such as Cumbria - homophobia is extremely widespread. Especially in the more rural areas such as my town it is very bad and in Carlisle the only city in Cumbria I have witnessed a lot of people being harassed for being gay. And i have friends who have been - this isn't just isolated to Cumbria either. There may be improvement in areas, but others it is getting worse. There is a reason why I am being so slow to come out (which i am, but at a slowish pace).
    You said it was still on the rise, which I took to mean you were implying there's been a long term increase, which I hope you realise is just plain wrong. I won't deny that you are likely to face some sort of harassment and discrimination based on your sexuality, but chances are you feel things are getting worse because you're continually witnessing more and more instances as time goes by, and even looking for possible discrimination more actively. In time, it'll fall (unless people identifying with the aforementioned religion become a lot more prevalent), but in the meantime passing laws is only going to hold it up by causing resentment. Put yourself in a business owner's position, say you're a shopkeeper, and somebody comes in wanting to buy stuff, so they give you the money and leave with the item. But what if that same somebody had come in waving the law demanding you sell them the item else you go to prison/are fined? You resent that interference/threat, and probably start looking at who the law 'protects' differently from those who it doesn't, i.e. you perpetuate the distinction that the law is trying to eradicate.


    i missphrased that and you seem to have ignored the article, homosexual males earn 14% less.
    I thought it was an advert or something (I only got one page out of at least 449) due to me not being a subscriber, and what you said seemed to back up what I had said. Having looked further, it's actually about the USA, not here - the top results on google (though they're all rather old) claim homosexuals here earn significantly more than heterosexuals, though there is mention of a shortfall in the times higher education article.

    It is a problem, if you ask most gay people they have most likely been discriminated against in some way for being gay. There are a lot of people you mentioned and there should be legislation as it covers a wide spectrum of people and it helps encourage equality abd cohesion. Without them you could be flagrantly discriminated against for something you don't choose which is extremely unfair.
    I'm talking about businesses here, obviously there's still some intolerance in society at large, but there's no problem in areas such as B&Bs since you can just go elsewhere and help their competitor.

    Did you not see that thread or even the news story about the transgender teacher who killed themselves after the barrage of abuse from the daily mail and response from it?
    Occasionally things like that will happen, and it does need to be stopped, but how can you connect that to a business owner refusing to sell a luxury to someone for whatever reason?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    [QUOTE=Hopple;41921074]You're continually witnessing more and more instances as time goes by[quote] I don't know about you, but that's synonymous with an increase.
    and even looking for possible discrimination more actively.
    Why would I go looking for discrimination - I want less not more - wtf?
    In time, it'll fall (unless people identifying with the aforementioned religion become a lot more prevalent)
    I'm in an area of low Muslim population - the Muslims I know actually don't care about homosexuality and are my friends - it's the white people in my area who are the problem - because practically everybody is white.
    but in the meantime passing laws is only going to hold it up by causing resentment.
    I do hope you realise that these laws were made for black people asian people and other people of ethnic minority, sexual orientations and other minority groups - it wasn't a save the gays bill.
    Put yourself in a business owner's position, say you're a shopkeeper, and somebody comes in wanting to buy stuff, so they give you the money and leave with the item. But what if that same somebody had come in waving the law demanding you sell them the item else you go to prison/are fined? You resent that interference/threat, and probably start looking at who the law 'protects' differently from those who it doesn't, i.e. you perpetuate the distinction that the law is trying to eradicate.
    Jesus Christ, nobody demanded anything - they just want to ****ing buy something - if people say now they can then say they have the right to do so - no gay man is going to go into a corner shop and say "I demand you allow me to buy these fruitella because as a gay man I have the right to do so" - get off of your high horse.

    I thought it was an advert or something (I only got one page out of at least 449) due to me not being a subscriber, and what you said seemed to back up what I had said. Having looked further, it's actually about the USA, not here - the top results on google (though they're all rather old) claim homosexuals here earn significantly more than heterosexuals, though there is mention of a shortfall in the times higher education article.
    the results may say that, but scholarly articles beg to differ - homosexual women earn more than straight men than women on average, but homosexual males 14% less on average - and those are from academic scholars. So you see an opposing view in THE yet you still claim gays earn more?
    I'm talking about businesses here, obviously there's still some intolerance in society at large, but there's no problem in areas such as B&Bs since you can just go elsewhere and help their competitor.
    - but the thing is that shouldn't be an issue - if someone is wanting to give you money for your service and they aren't breaking the law or being disgusting in some way then why the hell should they be refused? That's disgusting. It doesn't matter that if they go they help another business, it's the fact that they are rejected by a B&B owner for something they can't choose and isn't even a big deal.
    Occasionally things like that will happen, and it does need to be stopped, but how can you connect that to a business owner refusing to sell a luxury to someone for whatever reason?
    It links into the mindset - also it's a luxury, and if they can afford it they should be allowed it - who the **** gives the B&B owners the rights to say "you don't deserve this, we don't serve gays" - that's not clever from a business aspect, it makes the owners look like stupid bigots and it states that you believe that sellers of a service should be allowed to discriminate on who should be given the carrot and who the stick. If it's a business you aren't out there to pick and choose, you are there to make money.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SuperSam_Fantastiche)
    I don't understand Christians rights to discriminate based on "religious freedom" when the Bible clearly states this;
    Well, as the bible constantly contradicts itself, it's up to people to pick which side they are on, often choosing based on their preheld biases.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Ridiculous. Surely as a business they are supposed to follow equality laws and practices regardless of the hosts religions?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bluffroom)
    Link to the article

    "A Christian couple who broke equality laws when they refused to let a gay couple stay in a double room in their bed and breakfast will now be able to legally turn away homosexual couples after becoming a not-for-profit organisation."

    So the small minded B&B owners are once again turning away gay couples again, now by converting it into a Christian respite care center. It's crazy in this day and age.
    No, their website says that they do not rent double rooms to unmarried couples, whether gay or straight.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chadya)
    No, their website says that they do not rent double rooms to unmarried couples, whether gay or straight.
    They are in a civil partnership which has the same legal status as marriage.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ali-Iraq94)
    I believe that it´s a choice, and nothing you do will change that.
    God doesn´t create individuals whom he speaks badly about in the Quran.
    God is loving and wants the best for his creation, so why would he create homosexuals :confused:.

    Now when I think about it I´ve met a girl who was in a homosexual mess.
    She´s a girl, who feels like a guy, dresses like a guy, and is together with a girl who feels like a guy but is a girl and the girl I know (she was in my class, until she decided to leave after much bullying) refers to the girl as boyfriend.
    Clearly this is messed up. This is clearly the work of the devil. How can you deny this :confused: The girl is confused and needs guidance by god. I remember that I felt really sorry for her. You know, she´s is still human, albeit very confused.

    If I found out that a male friend was gay, I would cut all contact with him. I can´t be around someone of the same gender that wants to do sexual stuff with me. That´s just disgusting.
    How can I man-hug him , jump on him like after scoring a goal in football or something along those lines
    We arabs also have a certain way of greeting each other. How could I possibly greet someone like this if they´re gay!
    This is frankly beyond ridiculous. Why would someone choose to be gay? Where is the proof that they choose to be that way?
    Furthermore being gay does not mean that person will want to have sex or kiss every single person of the same sex especially the ones they know. I know gay people, a man who I have known since I was 5 is gay and he never tried to kiss me or do anything of that sorts. It's pretty ridiculous and the fact that you would choose to cut off all contact with that person because they are gay shows you are probably a terrible friend. Judgmental and ill advised. It's actions like that which spreads ignorance.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    The question is, does religion, religious choice and following trump modern discrimination laws? Does something being believed due to a persons religion mean they should be able to refuse and does that mean it is not comparable to a person refusing to allow Jews in or black people? Not does it but should it?
    As someone that is agnostic I want to say no it shouldn't but it would be biased and wrong for me to discount and ingnore the power of religion to individuals and what it means to them. It would be wrong because it would almost seem like I'm expecting them to drop part of their religious beliefs like it's nothing for what I would call adapting to modern life.
    So it is difficult. My personal opinion is that it is discrimination despite the fact that it is based on religious beliefs. It is not the most set in stone part of a persons religion and it clearly does not apply across the board since there are many Christians who support homosexuality and gay people. I would say they should not be allowed to refuse people because they are gay however the issue there is that such a thing could bring accusations of religious oppression. Of course such a thing would be weak but still

    I personally would not allow them to do such things despite the argument that they do so from the religious side. I would not put religion above society and I would not allow religious beliefs to legalise discrimination.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ANARCHY__)
    Here's the happy couple!



    Gosh, what a friendly looking place!
    Christ! talk about chewing a wasp. Would you hit it?
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bluffroom)
    I don't know about you, but that's synonymous with an increase.
    No. If something happens once a year, holding steady, then you personally are still going to see more occurrences as time goes by. People are far less homophobic (or otherwise intolerant) than they used to be, and that trend is continuing.
    Why would I go looking for discrimination - I want less not more - wtf?
    I'm saying you have confirmation bias. That doesn't mean that what you're seeing doesn't exist, just that you perceive it to be more common than it actually is.

    I do hope you realise that these laws were made for black people asian people and other people of ethnic minority, sexual orientations and other minority groups - it wasn't a save the gays bill.
    Indeed I do, but by having those distinctions written in law you perpetuate them rather than allow them to dissolve over time. Do I care what body shape people like seeing naked? Nope. Same goes for skin colour, country of birth and so on. But if the law tells me to make sure a certain group don't feel at all discriminated against under threat of prison or fines, then you can be sure I am going to make a distinction. I'm not perfect, I'll occasionally screw up and give a customer a bad experience, but why is it extra bad if it's someone from those groups?

    Jesus Christ, nobody demanded anything - they just want to ****ing buy something - if people say now they can then say they have the right to do so - no gay man is going to go into a corner shop and say "I demand you allow me to buy these fruitella because as a gay man I have the right to do so" - get off of your high horse.
    That's not how it happens, but it's the effect of a law. Look what happened in this case, the couple got taken to court and sued. Admittedly there was the aggravating factor of having already paid and travelled, but given some reactions to the story (yours included?) they still risk being dragged to court and fined even if they refuse before payment, and that is going to be on their mind.

    the results may say that, but scholarly articles beg to differ - homosexual women earn more than straight men than women on average, but homosexual males 14% less on average - and those are from academic scholars. So you see an opposing view in THE yet you still claim gays earn more?
    No, THE says gay men earn more, look at the article. It's vague on the reasons why, but the earnings disparity is very clear. Just type in 'average salary uk gay men' to get the others.

    I'm not interested in the USA figures, they aren't relevant to whether or not the UK is homophobic and to what extent.

    - but the thing is that shouldn't be an issue - if someone is wanting to give you money for your service and they aren't breaking the law or being disgusting in some way then why the hell should they be refused? That's disgusting. It doesn't matter that if they go they help another business, it's the fact that they are rejected by a B&B owner for something they can't choose and isn't even a big deal.
    No, it's disgusting that someone should be obligated to provide a service against their will.

    It links into the mindset - also it's a luxury, and if they can afford it they should be allowed it - who the **** gives the B&B owners the rights to say "you don't deserve this, we don't serve gays" - that's not clever from a business aspect, it makes the owners look like stupid bigots and it states that you believe that sellers of a service should be allowed to discriminate on who should be given the carrot and who the stick. If it's a business you aren't out there to pick and choose, you are there to make money.
    Nobody deserves or is entitled to a B&B stay, which is why I made the distinction of it being a luxury. If you can find someone who wants to do business with you, then great, but if not then too bad. It works both ways, I can't just set up a business and demand customers come to me just because they're buying the same thing for the same price elsewhere, they can pick and choose based on meaningless things like packaging colour or amount of lighting in the shop, a business owner should get to make their own arbitrary decisions too.

    You can **** off the owners' business sense all you like, and you'd be right, but that's no reason for the law to step in and force them to do something. If I sell my car to a friend for £100, that's fine even if there was some random offering me £200. If I offer to do my elderly neighbour's shopping for free even though if I did it as a Tesco/Waitrose/other delivery driver I'd get paid to do the same, that's fine. Those are all 'bad business sense', but I'm entitled (or should be) to do that. Not everything is about money, especially for small businesses like a B&B.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Hall&Preddy v Bull is a good example of how the right from freedom of discrimination has a prioty over freedom of religion.
    Basically because the bulls are offering a service then they are not allowed to directly discriminate a protected characteristic. This means that under the Equality act they cannot treat someone, or in this case a couple differently than someone in the same position due to this characteristic of sexual orientation.
    It also seems weird that they can refuse someone that are not in a civil partnership or married. As there was a case similar to this where the couple were not in a civil partnership and the same decision was made.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Rightly so, they should never have been sued in the first place.

    It was ridiculous.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    Christ! talk about chewing a wasp. Would you hit it?
    I might hit the wasp :awesome:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I disagree with them turning away gay couples, as it seems pretty clear discrimination to me, but at the same time I don't think they should have been sued. A business has the right to turn away any customers at any time for any reason, it's just bad business to do that. I think that just publicizing what had happened would do the business more damage.
    Offline

    16
    I've got a bit of sorting out in this thread to do. I'm temporarily locking it whilst I do so, so please bear with me.

    Edit - Sorted for now. There may be posts in here still considered controversial/offensive. It is likely because that the discussion that has stemmed from them has benefited the thread/given context to other posts in this thread. If you spot anything that we've missed/explicity broken the rules please use the report post feature.

    Happy discussing/debating.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bluffroom)
    <br />
    <br />
    It does tell me something - this was written 1400 years ago when wearing polymers was punishable by death - the people who wrote these were retarded and obsessed with death. I personally think your religion's hadith and holy book were produced by a bunch of stupid ***** but people didnt realise that as most people at the time were owned by slave masters and had no freedom or education and had no idea how stupid this was. But remember, that's my view and im entitled to it.
    Talk about no education, quite ironic looking at this post. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Miracle Day)
    It's their property, if they don't want to let gay couples into their home then they shouldn't be forced to.
    Coming from you of all people I'm bewildered.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kiss)
    Coming from you of all people I'm bewildered.
    Why?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ForgetMe)
    ...I'm scared to meet you in a street because you'll start to 'cure' me :eek: Okay, go worship your thingy and I'll go worship a penis
    Hilarious :lolz:

    Bit disgusting, the thought of it, but still hilarious

    [IMG]http://*****wantstea.files.wordpress.co m/2010/03/penis_festival.jpg[/IMG]
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: March 24, 2013
Poll
Which Fantasy Franchise is the best?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.