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    I'm only pro abortion in the case of rape and incest. I do not in any way condone these "inconvenience" terminations. Close your legs next time ****.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    I see you all the time on anti-feminism threads. You have no trust in women. Don't even go there.
    Because modern feminism is a joke.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    I see you all the time on anti-feminism threads. You have no trust in women. Don't even go there.
    No, I obviously don't and I have quite blatant reasons! This one being an obvious example! Why the hell should I trust women who say to men don't to pay for a child for the rest of your life? Don't have sex! And then go and say women should have a choice as to wether or not have the child? Seriously you would be pretty pissed off if you was the one born with the penis with much less right parental and prenatal rights than someone who has the complete control over wether or not to abort the child!

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    That there are still pro-life people around is baffling to me. I can't believe a state still has the power to do such a thing.

    (Although one thing I do disagree with is the idea women who have a child a man expressively did not should still expect him to pay child support if he's never going to be involved in their life. Perhaps they should introduce some form or some sort sorting this issue out...)
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    That there are still pro-life people around is baffling to me. I can't believe a state still has the power to do such a thing.

    (Although one thing I do disagree with is the idea women who have a child a man expressively did not should still expect him to pay child support if he's never going to be involved in their life. Perhaps they should introduce some form or some sort sorting this issue out...)
    Thank you, because you actually get it!!

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    (Original post by Stroma)
    Because modern feminism is a joke.
    Man hating ball crushers - not feminists.
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    No, I obviously don't and I have quite blatant reasons! This one being an obvious example! Why the hell should I trust women who say to men don't to pay for a child for the rest of your life? Don't have sex! And then go and say women should have a choice as to wether or not have the child? Seriously you would be pretty pissed off if you was the one born with the penis with much less right parental and prenatal rights than someone who has the complete control over wether or not to abort the child!

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    Calm the **** down. Seriously, you're making my internal reading voice add "hysterical" into every message you send.

    Why should a man have control over what lives in a woman's uterus? Please explain that. Preferrably without exclamation marks.
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Thank you, because you actually get it!!

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    Well yeah I just don't see how that's fair. I firmly believe in woman's body, woman's choice, but it is also the man's choice whether to commit or not! Not just women who make the mistake of an unwanted pregnancy you know?
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    Calm the **** down. Seriously, you're making my internal reading voice add "hysterical" into every message you send.

    Why should a man have control over what lives in a woman's uterus? Please explain that. Preferrably without exclamation marks.
    Did I say that? No! I did not! She has the choice to abort so he should have the choice to not be involved!

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Did I say that? No! I did not! She has the choice to abort so he should have the choice to not be involved!

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    Look, can't you see that if a child has been born, it is in the best interests of the kid to have both parents financially support them? That kid has a right to have the best chance in life, and only child support from both parents can help ensure that.
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    What if he stated that he did not want to be involved at the stage when she could abort? Does his choices not count? No? Anyhow, by reading this thread I've lost a lot of trust that I used to have in women.

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    They do count, but the woman's views counts more with regards to the foetus (plainly and simply because she is biologically the one who has to deal with it) up until the point when the baby is viable. After this, the baby can exist outside the mother (it isn't biologically dependent on the mother anymore) and that's why it's illegal for abortions to happen at this stage. This is when the child starts coming first.

    Believe me, I can understand your view. I just don't see any fair way to deal with it. Either the baby suffers or the father does in this situation, and I just think that ultimately the child is more important.

    I'm not trying to put women first, as you think I'm doing. I'm trying to see what's the fairest thing to do overall in this situation. I hope you can at least see whereabouts where I am coming from.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    Look, can't you see that if a child has been born, it is in the best interests of the kid to have both parents financially support them? That kid has a right to have the best chance in life, and only child support from both parents can help ensure that.
    I don't care about the child do I? I had absolutely no say in wether or not I had it! So why should I have to pay a penny? Your a disgracful chauvinist! Seriously it's because women like you only care about what you want and don't consider men's opinions! Scum!

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    I don't care about the child do I? I had absolutely no say in wether or not I had it! So why should I have to pay a penny? Your a disgracful chauvinist!

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    Your grammar is disgraceful...

    It should not matter whether (yes, there is an "h", pay attention) you care for the child or not. If you have created a life, whether or not you wanted it, you should financially support it because otherwise you are causing an innocent person to suffer.

    I am not a chauvinist, you however are nearly illiterate.
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    I would never have a termination but that's only because of my experiences with pregnancy. Women, however, should have the right to decide and I am very very pro-choice. That a state can impose such restrictions is very sad.
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    (Original post by Kazbian)
    They do count, but the woman's views counts more with regards to the foetus (plainly and simply because she is biologically the one who has to deal with it) up until the point when the baby is viable. After this, the baby can exist outside the mother (it isn't biologically dependent on the mother anymore) and that's why it's illegal for abortions to happen at this stage. This is when the child starts coming first.

    Believe me, I can understand your view. I just don't see any fair way to deal with it. Either the baby suffers or the father does in this situation, and I just think that ultimately the child is more important.

    I'm not trying to put women first, as you think I'm doing. I'm trying to see what's the fairest thing to do overall in this situation. I hope you can at least see whereabouts where I am coming from.
    Solution: Males must opt-in to fatherhood and paying child maintenance. The pregnant female must contact the father/s by x week in the pregnancy (say a month before the last abortion point?) to opt-in to fatherhood and child maintenance. If he does (and signs a witnessed form for legality) he's paying child maintenance for 18 years. If not, perhaps the female may consider getting an abortion if she's not able to support a child financially? If the female does'nt contact the male, that's an opt-out.

    There probably are problems here but I think it would be a lot fairer between the parents
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    Your grammar is disgraceful...

    It should not matter whether (yes, there is an "h", pay attention) you care for the child or not. If you have created a life, whether or not you wanted it, you should financially support it because otherwise you are causing an innocent person to suffer.

    I am not a chauvinist, you however are nearly illiterate.
    Oh no! I missed out a letter, pedantic and irreverent much? So you can get rid of the child at any time, if you are pro choice for women why are you not pro choice for men? Seriously, your argument on this is incompetent! Misandric reasoning galore!



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    (Original post by Prandtl)
    Solution: Males must opt-in to fatherhood and paying child maintenance. The pregnant female must contact the father/s by x week in the pregnancy (say a month before the last abortion point?) to opt-in to fatherhood and child maintenance. If he does (and signs a witnessed form for legality) he's paying child maintenance for 18 years. If not, perhaps the female may consider getting an abortion if she's not able to support a child financially? If the female does'nt contact the male, that's an opt-out.

    There probably are problems here but I think it would be a lot fairer between the parents
    This! Even a simpleton could understand this is ethical to both genders!

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Oh no! I missed out a letter, pedantic much? So you can get rid of the child at any time, if you are pro choice for women why are you not pro choice for men? Seriously, your argument on this is incompetent! Misandric reasoning galore!



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    You clearly are either trolling, or deliberately choosing to not read my responses properly.

    I am pro-choice "for women", as you put it, because a man should not be able to force a woman to either have a child or abort a child, because that's her womb, not his.

    I am not pro-choice for men on the subject of abortion because that would give them rights over someone else's body.

    I am not pro-choice for men deciding when to pay child support because it is best for the child if both parents contribute financially to it's upkeep and wellbeing. The child is completely innocent and does not deserve to suffer in order to appease the man's bank account.
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    (Original post by Prandtl)
    Solution: Males must opt-in to fatherhood and paying child maintenance. The pregnant female must contact the father/s by x week in the pregnancy (say a month before the last abortion point?) to opt-in to fatherhood and child maintenance. If he does (and signs a witnessed form for legality) he's paying child maintenance for 18 years. If not, perhaps the female may consider getting an abortion if she's not able to support a child financially? If the female does'nt contact the male, that's an opt-out.

    There probably are problems here but I think it would be a lot fairer between the parents
    (Original post by jreid1994)
    This! Even a simpleton could understand this is ethical to both genders!

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    It is not ethical to the child, should the woman decide to carry on with the pregnancy. Also, it means that by opting out of child-support, the man has essentially decided whether or not the woman can have a child or not. If his potential support is what she is relying on to go ahead with the pregnancy, choosing to withdraw that is basically saying that she will now have less choice over whether or not to abort.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    You clearly are either trolling, or deliberately choosing to not read my responses properly.

    I am pro-choice "for women", as you put it, because a man should not be able to force a woman to either have a child or abort a child, because that's her womb, not his.

    I am not pro-choice for men on the subject of abortion because that would give them rights over someone else's body.

    I am not pro-choice for men deciding when to pay child support because it is best for the child if both parents contribute financially to it's upkeep and wellbeing. The child is completely innocent and does not deserve to suffer in order to appease the man's bank account.
    Chauvinism at is most irritatingly irrational!

    The man don't have to tell the woman to abort to not be socially or economically involved, but all you see men as is a walking wallet! Your incoherent reasoning is pathetic, the women could just send him a formal letter as soon as she finds out that's she's pregnant saying "if you pay towards the child you can see the child do you want to pay for it?" That way she could have the choice to abortion and he could have the choice as to whether or not he's finally and socially involved in the children's life! Tell me that is that too hard to do? Any reason you give to this will be sexist wether you say it is or not you are only thinking about women's intrests and women's only!

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