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Further cuts to police and army Watch

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    (Original post by Pedd)
    I just hate it that in a time where cuts are necessary, people are still so opposed to cutting any money at all from what's arguably our biggest national waste. We can put the budget on a diet without it leading to cardboard defenses.
    Waste? The defence budget supports hundreds of thousands of jobs directly, even more indirectly through the supply chain, procurement and consumption and subsidises our hi-tech aerospace and defence industry, which is pretty much the only remaining advanced manufacturing we have left.
    No, there are about a million things the government spends taxpayer money on that are a 'waste', the defence budget isn't one of them.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    No, they're really not. The US pretty much single handedly broke the Iraqi insurgency, and after they bailed us out in Helmand their marines completely flushed out the Helmand river valley of Taliban forces.
    They are still suffering more losses then people ever expected. Do remember that their sucess in butchering the enemy does end up in the deaths of many civilians.

    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Again, no. We're not fighting terrorism, only that wally George Bush thinks that. We're fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
    We have a very effective hearts and minds policy that includes subsidising farmers to grow wheat rather than opium and also flat out bribing Taliban into switching sides.
    The problem is we don't have enough troops to secure and hold villages. Right now it's a constant cycle of capturing a village, pushing the Taliban out, build a new school and a road, leave, Taliban come back, rinse and repeat.
    You still cannot deny the fact that this isn't what our troops were kitted-up for. Many of those fighting against us in Afghanistan are your average men who just want us to leave their country. Although I'll concede that most of those problems come from the American's heavy-handed tactics. The pentagon papers revealed as much.


    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Would we really now? Walk me through, say, Russia invading us.
    Against most of the world's nations, our budget is higher. We can't fight everybody alone, that's true. But it would be national suicide if we tried to match them and China's capabilities.




    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except we have plenty of experience successfully defeating guerilla insurgencies, like in Kenya, Oman and Malaya. The idea that they can't be defeated is a myth invented by the Yanks to cover up the fact that they screwed up so bad in Vietnam.
    We're never going to win in Afghanistan while a) Pakistan's ISI keeps backing the Taliban and b) that corrupt weasel Karzai is in charge.
    We can't beat them as long as anybody on our side, either us or the US, rile up more people to join the opposition. Guerrilla warfare is about keeping the precarious balance between beating those who are currently the enemy and keeping the people happy. We cannot use these types of conflicts as a way to measure the capabilities of our military in a defense war.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Waste? The defence budget supports hundreds of thousands of jobs directly, even more indirectly through the supply chain, procurement and consumption and subsidises our hi-tech aerospace and defence industry, which is pretty much the only remaining advanced manufacturing we have left.
    No, there are about a million things the government spends taxpayer money on that are a 'waste', the defence budget isn't one of them.
    So you wouldn't concede that it could be helpful to cut the budget just a teeny bit? There's always waste in any budget and any industry. Would you agree on compromise that we maybe can cut some of the money off without harming our capabilities?

    Sir, allow some cuts, they are only wafer thin!
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    (Original post by Pedd)
    They are still suffering more losses then people ever expected.
    Who?

    (Original post by Pedd)
    Do remember that their sucess in butchering the enemy does end up in the deaths of many civilians.
    Unfortunate, yes, but when they aren't targetted what exactly does that prove? The Taliban are responsible for 80% of civilian deaths.

    (Original post by Pedd)
    You still cannot deny the fact that this isn't what our troops were kitted-up for. Many of those fighting against us in Afghanistan are your average men who just want us to leave their country. Although I'll concede that most of those problems come from the American's heavy-handed tactics. The pentagon papers revealed as much.
    What does the motives of the Taliban matter in how effective our boys are equiped?

    (Original post by Pedd)
    Against most of the world's nations, our budget is higher. We can't fight everybody alone, that's true. But it would be national suicide if we tried to match them and China's capabilities.
    Says more about the rest of the developed world more than anything about us.
    I'm not saying we should match China or the Yanks or anyone else, all I'm saying is that we should halt cuts.


    (Original post by Pedd)
    We can't beat them as long as anybody on our side, either us or the US, rile up more people to join the opposition. Guerrilla warfare is about keeping the precarious balance between beating those who are currently the enemy and keeping the people happy.
    The Yanks, while a bunch of inconsiderate divs, really do pale into insignificance in comparison to the effect of the ISI and corruption on our war effort. Have you heard of the Airlift of Evil?

    (Original post by Pedd)
    We cannot use these types of conflicts as a way to measure the capabilities of our military in a defense war.
    We sort of can draw some insight, and I'd also much rather not have to resort to fighting to the death on the streets of London if that's alright with you.
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    (Original post by Pedd)
    So you wouldn't concede that it could be helpful to cut the budget just a teeny bit? There's always waste in any budget and any industry. Would you agree on compromise that we maybe can cut some of the money off without harming our capabilities?

    Sir, allow some cuts, they are only wafer thin!
    Blah!
    I'd have no problem with cuts to the MOD. Too many pen pushers. When I was in the army our company hq had about thirty civilian staff (ie. twenty five too many) yet the building would only be open for about four hours a day, four days a week.
    I would much rather the savings got reinvested though...I've been dreaming of the day we have our own strategic defence iniative...
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Blah!
    I'd have no problem with cuts to the MOD. Too many pen pushers. When I was in the army our company hq had about thirty civilian staff (ie. twenty five too many) yet the building would only be open for about four hours a day, four days a week.
    I would much rather the savings got reinvested though...I've been dreaming of the day we have our own strategic defence iniative...
    People dream of having family, cars and massive mansions. You dream of owning a strategic defense initiative!

    At least this is something we can agree on. I would then say that we should asses how many pen-pushing desk-munchies can be cut. Then we can look at everything else if needed.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Blah!
    I'd have no problem with cuts to the MOD. Too many pen pushers. When I was in the army our company hq had about thirty civilian staff (ie. twenty five too many) yet the building would only be open for about four hours a day, four days a week.
    I would much rather the savings got reinvested though...I've been dreaming of the day we have our own strategic defence iniative...

    Waste in the MoD. How dare you. It's a stream lined organisation with no slack.......unless it's Weekends, Wednesday afternoon PT or Friday afternoon early knock off.

    There's a lot of slack in the MoD and procurement still needs to be brought under control. Big And Expensive seems to be making a mint.
 
 
 
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