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Pro Gay but not 'Ungay' ads allowed on buses?

So the ruling that Pro Gay ads were allowed on the side of buses but not the 'Ungay' ads is to be challenged in the High Courts.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/28/boris-johnsons-ban-of-gay-cure-bus-posters-challenged-in-high-court-by-christian-group-3519569/

Sounds about right as both ad campaigns should have had a chance to air.

Thoughts?

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Reply 1
Original post by ufo2012
So the ruling that Pro Gay ads were allowed on the side of buses but not the 'Ungay' ads is to be challenged in the High Courts.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/28/boris-johnsons-ban-of-gay-cure-bus-posters-challenged-in-high-court-by-christian-group-3519569/

Sounds about right as both ad campaigns should have had a chance to air.

Thoughts?


There is no such thing as a gay 'cure', as is confirmed by hundreds of professional medical and psychological bodies. There is however plenty of evidence that offering such a 'cure' causes psychological damage in the long-run.

More equal societies do better. I would like to think that to anyone with half a brain cell, it's obvious why the pro-gay ad was allowed and not the homophobic one.

I remember this story coming out a while back and I was absolutely mortified to think that something anti-gay could be put on the side of a bus in the UK, especially in London! It was something of a relief to find the plans were not allowed to go ahead.
One is promoting tolerance and one is promoting hatred. Pretty clear cut difference if you ask me.
Reply 3
Original post by Jakaroo94

More equal societies do better. I would like to think that to anyone with half a brain cell, it's obvious why the pro-gay ad was allowed and not the homophobic one.


This does not seem in any way equal here. One set of ads was allowed to run while the other was not.

Original post by Transformational
One is promoting tolerance and one is promoting hatred. Pretty clear cut difference if you ask me.


After looking at both, I don't see how you think the statement ‘Not Gay! Ex-Gay, Post-Gay and Proud. Get over it!’ is homophobic...

and it is most definitely not promoting hatred, no idea how you determine that.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by ufo2012
This does not seem in any way equal here. One set of ads was allowed to run while the other was not.

After looking at both, I don't see how you think the statement ‘Not Gay! Ex-Gay, Post-Gay and Proud. Get over it!’ is homophobic.


Oh dear. Do you not think that perhaps 'ex-gay and proud' suggests that there is something wrong with being gay in the first place?

It seems perfectly fair to me. Why on Earth would we want to promote lies i.e. homosexuality is something that can and should be 'cured'? The Stonewall ad is promoting tolerance, and surely that is a positive thing.

Why would you want to give a platform to something that isn't true and incites hatred? Have you any idea how many young gay people who, as hard as it may be for you to believe, have no control over their sexuality want to commit suicide? And how many do commit suicide?

It's things like this that tell you you're an evil human being, or 'disordered' in some way that pushes people over the edge.
Reply 5
Original post by Jakaroo94
Oh dear. Do you not think that perhaps 'ex-gay and proud' suggests that there is something wrong with being gay in the first place.


In the context of the sentence it would suggest that person or person(s) were once gay and moved on. And glad/proud to have done so.
Reply 6
Original post by ufo2012
In the context of the sentence it would suggest that person or person(s) were once gay and moved on. And glad/proud to have done so.


Are you trying to annoy me?

Generally I would only be glad about leaving something behind if it were a negative thing. Therefore this is obviously suggesting that homosexuality is a bad thing.

You don't seem worth debating with to be honest. If you can't work something as simple as that out for yourself.
Original post by ufo2012



After looking at both, I don't see how you think the statement ‘Not Gay! Ex-Gay, Post-Gay and Proud. Get over it!’ is homophobic...

and it is most definitely not promoting hatred, no idea how you determine that.


Advert pertains to an organisation that deems homosexuality as 'negative' and an 'illness to be treated', an expression of intolerance.
Reply 8
Original post by Transformational
One is promoting tolerance and one is promoting hatred. Pretty clear cut difference if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpNRw7snmGM
Reply 9
Original post by Jakaroo94
Are you trying to annoy me?

I answered your question with a genuine answer.

I have no desire to debate with you exclusively, as there are many other users on these forums, but it is a debate topic so replies are helpful.

Original post by Jakaroo94
Generally I would only be glad about leaving something behind if it were a negative thing. Therefore this is obviously suggesting that homosexuality is a bad thing.

Maybe it is the way that is is worded that you disagree with, but I get the feeling from your posts that it isn't.

The first ad saying "Some people are gay. Get over it". It's a statement. Pretty neutral.

For example, if the second ad was changed instead said "Some people were once gay, but are no longer gay. Get over it". Again pretty neutral.

But would you have accepted that? Something tells me that its unlikely.
Original post by ufo2012
I answered your question with a genuine answer.

I have no desire to debate with you exclusively, as there are many other users on these forums, but it is a debate topic so replies are helpful.



Maybe it is the way that is is worded that you disagree with, but I get the feeling from your posts that it isn't.

The first ad saying "Some people are gay. Get over it". It's a statement. Pretty neutral.

For example, if the second ad was changed instead said "Some people were once gay, but are no longer gay. Get over it". Again pretty neutral.

But would you have accepted that? Something tells me that its unlikely.


No I would not have accepted that. Because, as I have now affirmed more than once, highly esteemed professors and academics and professional members of psychological and medical bodies (all of whom are far more qualified to comment on the matter than you) agree that homosexuality can not be changed. So that would make this 'advertisement' misleading and a lie.

But in any case, you're clearly a bit dense so I won't be contributing any further.

xox
Reply 11
Original post by Jakaroo94

But in any case, you're clearly a bit dense so I won't be contributing any further.


Good. I see no need to be offensive but you obviously do not. So I kindly and gladly part ways.
Reply 12
Original post by ufo2012
Good. I see no need to be offensive but you obviously do not. So I kindly and gladly part ways.


Why are ypu avoiding the issue? The problem with the ad is being gay is not.something that can be cured nor should it be. So do you not accept this?

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(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Jakaroo94
There is no such thing as a gay 'cure', as is confirmed by hundreds of professional medical and psychological bodies. There is however plenty of evidence that offering such a 'cure' causes psychological damage in the long-run.

As I understand the advert was banned not because the offered service was considered fraudulent but because it advocated a political opinion the London government did not agree with.

The court then ruled that the London government is allowed to ban political opinions it doesn't agree with at least in some circumstances.
Reply 14
I'd like to see people trying to justify it if it were skin bleach, with "ex black and proud" ...
Reply 15
One is saying that we should be tolerant of others - it is not an attack on anyone. Being gay does not affect anyone else and everyone should learn to live with it in society. The other is not promoting tolerance but is an attack on gay people. If it said 'some people are christian, get over it' that would be different.
Original post by Skip_Snip
I'd like to see people trying to justify it if it were skin bleach, with "ex black and proud" ...


Perhaps this is one of those fundamental differences of worldview, but I don't think any strength of my personal disagreement justifies banning someone doing something perfectly peaceful like offering a product for sale or advocating a political position.

Remember that not so long ago people thought homosexuality was horribly "offensive" and would presumably have banned both adverts on decency grounds. Pinning your freedom to the changing whims of the masses is a dangerous game.
Reply 17
Original post by Aj12
The problem with the ad is being gay is not.something that can be cured nor should it be. So do you not accept this?


You are stating that as if it is fact. So yes there is a problem with that. It is not proven fact that a person who was once gay can become heterosexual.

The ad implies that a person, even if it was only one single person was a gay and moved on and is now Ex-Gay, so they are also now Post-Gay.

Nobody ever mentioned in this thread that being gay was an 'illness' that must be 'cured'.

But in the DSM there is an article for people who wish to change from being gay - if it exists in that there is most than one person who has encountered this in the past and by what it would seem there are people who continue to advocate that it is possible to once be gay and then become heterosexual.

Of course the DSM is undergoing a revision which will be with us soon, so it will interesting to see if that diagnosis is kept or removed.

Whether you agree with the above or not is not really the primary debate of this topic though (there is a separate topic for the issue you are talking about).


Original post by Observatory

Remember that not so long ago people thought homosexuality was horribly "offensive" and would presumably have banned both adverts on decency grounds. Pinning your freedom to the changing whims of the masses is a dangerous game.


Definitely agree and it would seem that on the whim of political or even public opinion that the first ad was accepted and the second banned, 10-15 years ago it may have been the other way around.

Does that mean it was right 10-15 years ago? No, it just means that again, they would have been going with political/public opinion.

If equality really exists then both ads would have run.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 18
It's not "politically driven", it's driven by common sense and decency.
What happend to west end musicals being the ads you saw on busses, these athiest/christian, gay/anti-gay ads are all very confusing.

Still, glad it got turned down. Post-gay....as though anyone has faced stigma over being straight.

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