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Why is masculinity seen to be the demon like and femininity isn't?? Watch

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    (Original post by Ultimate1)
    Great response.

    The fact is that no one can go against logic and science.

    It's no surprise that when Europeans ventures to other continents centuries ago they found men and women in exactly the same roles as Europeans themselves. This itself shows that gender roles aren't some societal imposed hell on women they have always been a way to allow society to function and florish.

    couldn't agree more with both of you. Some women refuse to believe the idea that there are innate differences between men and women. Humans are not a "blank slate" moulded by society and the social norms. It's impossible.

    Feminists believe they are fighting for the freedom of all women. But really they are small percentage of elitists with a MAJOR chip on their shoulder.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    If you look at primitive societies men and women definitely do have different roles. The women in general do more gathering. Whilst the men do more hunting. Men and women specialise their labour.
    Ah yes, those societies which have existed for nearly as long as ours.

    And let's not even get get into the point that hunting doesn't require any of the traits you listed, to be honest.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    I am not saying that women do not work hard. Sure they might have fought in a few wars from time to time. But the reality is combat is the realm of men. It is the role of the man to protect the women from danger. Women are more important from an evolutionary sense than men. One man can do the work of many men. Whilst one woman can only do the work of one other woman.
    Ahaha, oh man, you make me laugh. Let's just ignore some more historical facts to make yourself feel better about bull**** gender roles. "A few wars from time to time"... oh my, that's a good one.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Men are designed to be protective of women and fight to defend them. Whilst women are supposed to be protected from danger. It is instincts to protect women that mean men go out to war. And why it is unacceptable for men to hit women.
    And yet women are as good fighters as men.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    You can explain the differences with sociological bull****. But you can explain it using biology, an actual science.
    Or, you can explain how the sociological influences the biological.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    I agree that boys and girls are treated differently and this causes different behavior. However that does not mean boys and girls are the same and the differences are only due to social conditioning.
    I haven't denied physical differences, but I do deny that they are as great as you wish they were to defend your sexist attitude.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Women are encouraged to play sports. There is no end of efforts to try and get women to play sport. But in the end, they do not like sport as much as boys. Boys love competition, a masculine trait, and thus love sport.
    Women love competition, or have you never gone shopping or listened to a woman haggle or even compete with themselves? You also ignore the effects begin at home, so by the time they are encouraged, which is generally quite late in their development, it's usually too late.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    And playing sport will not have much effect on bone density and muscle formation. Hormones, diet and genetics are the key determinants of that. Not playing football, cricket or even rugby.
    Yea, that's not what I read. So, you say that playing sports which force you to constantly exert your muscles will not help increase their mass? Hmmmm, yea, cause that makes sense.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Next you are going to be saying women are shorter because society tells them that it is feminine to be short.
    No, but then I'm not denying physical differences, just that they are as great as you want.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Lifting stuff up and putting it down is pretty natural.
    Yea, but not the extent of weight lifting.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Nope. Girls started playing hockey with me at the same time I started. And they were ****. In fact I remember the boys even beating the girls at Netball. A sport the boys never trained in before.
    And yet you still miss the point.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Ah yes, those societies which have existed for nearly as long as ours.

    And let's not even get get into the point that hunting doesn't require any of the traits you listed, to be honest.




    Ahaha, oh man, you make me laugh. Let's just ignore some more historical facts to make yourself feel better about bull**** gender roles. "A few wars from time to time"... oh my, that's a good one.




    And yet women are as good fighters as men.




    Or, you can explain how the sociological influences the biological.




    I haven't denied physical differences, but I do deny that they are as great as you wish they were to defend your sexist attitude.




    Women love competition, or have you never gone shopping or listened to a woman haggle or even compete with themselves? You also ignore the effects begin at home, so by the time they are encouraged, which is generally quite late in their development, it's usually too late.




    Yea, that's not what I read. So, you say that playing sports which force you to constantly exert your muscles will not help increase their mass? Hmmmm, yea, cause that makes sense.




    No, but then I'm not denying physical differences, just that they are as great as you want.




    Yea, but not the extent of weight lifting.




    And yet you still miss the point.

    perfect example of undermining individuals (notably a man) in order to make your point seem more valid. And you wonder why you have to fight so hard?...

    using men as a reason for you feeling inferior because of your biological/innate differences is a little amusing in this day in age.

    I think it's pretty obvious you are aware men are better at some things than you. And you want to feel as successful. But you can't. Because you aren't the same as a man. And it bothers you
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Femininity and masculinity, assuming you mean the stereotypical attributes assigned to gender, both have good points and bad points.

    For example, a man can be told he is meant to be strong, dominant, and masculine, that he should fight in wars and protect women and children - yet then be criticised if he shows little emotion or is "cowardly" in a war situation.

    And example, a woman can be told she should be a homemaker, quiet and beautiful, yet be criticised if all she aspires to do is be a mum and not support herself financially.

    I am of the opinion that gender stereotypes are detrimental to all, as it just gives you the opportunity to bully or undermine those who don't fit into their designated positions - I think this is partially why women who exhibit masculine traits and men who exhibit feminine traits are often picked upon by society - not to mention the gender queer and trans community, who don't fit into either binary.

    Saying that either masculinity or femininity is "seen to be demon like" is just a generalisation, at the end of the day all you have is human beings who do good things and bad things in life, regardless of their gender.
    I see you everywhere, and I always agree with your posts. I just felt I had to say this.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    I see you everywhere, and I always agree with your posts. I just felt I had to say this.
    Thanks! Nice to get support and not hate mail from the copious amounts of anti-feminists swarming onto this site recently
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Thanks! Nice to get support and not hate mail from the copious amounts of anti-feminists swarming onto this site recently
    Nope, I'm a feminist too Of course, not a man-hater (I rather adore men), just opposed to the social inequalities still aimed at women.

    I assume you've seen the EverydaySexismProject?
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    (Original post by irishspringbok)
    perfect example of undermining individuals (notably a man) in order to make your point seem more valid. And you wonder why you have to fight so hard?...

    using men as a reason for you feeling inferior because of your biological/innate differences is a little amusing in this day in age.

    I think it's pretty obvious you are aware men are better at some things than you. And you want to feel as successful. But you can't. Because you aren't the same as a man. And it bothers you
    She said she hasn't denied physical differences like 4 times in that comment. We get it the majority of men are stronger than the majority of women. So what? Lifting weights doesn't equal success so your attempt at a insult is superfluous.
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    (Original post by ChocoCoatedLemons)
    Nope, I'm a feminist too Of course, not a man-hater (I rather adore men), just opposed to the social inequalities still aimed at women.

    I assume you've seen the EverydaySexismProject?
    Oh yes sorry I know you're a feminist, I probably should have put a comma somewhere in my previous post, I wasn't trying to imply you were anti-feminist! And I adore men too, they're lovely old things most of the time

    And I have indeed seen the everyday sexism project, I try not to read it too often though as it gets me down, I experience sexism all too often sadly, it's just one of those things
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Ahaha, oh man, you make me laugh. Let's just ignore some more historical facts to make yourself feel better about bull**** gender roles. "A few wars from time to time"... oh my, that's a good one.
    Fighting in wars is something that men tend to do. Even in this day and age, women in the military are rarely actually doing the fighting.

    And as I point out, it makes perfect sense from a evolutionary point of view for men to fight and for women to avoid conflict. It is in our instincts.

    And yet women are as good fighters as men.
    Want a fight?

    How about we get all the women to fight all the men, lets see who wins.

    Women love competition, or have you never gone shopping or listened to a woman haggle or even compete with themselves? You also ignore the effects begin at home, so by the time they are encouraged, which is generally quite late in their development, it's usually too late.
    Haggling is not competition. And you cannot compete with yourself, that is contradiction in terms. The main area where women compete is when eyeing up other girls as to how attractive they are and how well dressed they are. Something boys do much less of. We compete over things like sports, drinking and grades.

    Yea, that's not what I read. So, you say that playing sports which force you to constantly exert your muscles will not help increase their mass? Hmmmm, yea, cause that makes sense.
    You clearly do not lift, or play sport.

    The reason rugby players are big, is not because rugby makes you big, but because the people who are naturally big are better at rugby.

    No, but then I'm not denying physical differences, just that they are as great as you want.
    I will agree women have a similar anatomy. However they on average have higher body fat. Less muscle mass. Shorter. Wider hips. Less coordinated. Making them inferior at sports and general physical activity. That is why we have women's sports that is separate from men's sports. And it is why men take on certain roles such as hunting (speed, power, coordination being very important) whilst women take on different roles. It is perfectly natural and efficient way to structure roles between the genders.
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    You know you are dealing with a madwoman when she not only denies the psychological differences between the genders but also the physical ones.
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    (Original post by irishspringbok)
    perfect example of undermining individuals (notably a man) in order to make your point seem more valid. And you wonder why you have to fight so hard?...

    using men as a reason for you feeling inferior because of your biological/innate differences is a little amusing in this day in age.

    I think it's pretty obvious you are aware men are better at some things than you. And you want to feel as successful. But you can't. Because you aren't the same as a man. And it bothers you
    Ahahaha, this response makes me giggle. For so many more reasons than you could possibly know.

    Why do I have to fight so hard? Because patriarchy makes the other side seem natural when it isn't. The discourse surrounding the entire debate is biased in favour of the bull**** nature argument which fails to take into account any form of social conditioning having an effect on biological processes.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Fighting in wars is something that men tend to do. Even in this day and age, women in the military are rarely actually doing the fighting.
    Ahhh yes, again, let's ignore historical and social facts to make our argument. You know why women see little frontline action to this day? Because sexist attitudes like yours argue that women cannot be as good on the frontline as men, yet there's no evidence of this.

    Women do not need your or any male's protection. They can defend themselves.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    And as I point out, it makes perfect sense from a evolutionary point of view for men to fight and for women to avoid conflict. It is in our instincts.
    Actually, it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that women would have all those traits in equal abundance as men.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Want a fight?
    Not particularly, I have better things to do with my time. Besides, I thought you said it wasn't right to hit a girl? So now you're sexist and a hypocrite?


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    How about we get all the women to fight all the men, lets see who wins.
    Yes, because that's really going to solve the argument. :rolleyes: Or even support your argument at all, when you think of everything I've been trying to say about society impacting biology.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Haggling is not competition. And you cannot compete with yourself, that is contradiction in terms. The main area where women compete is when eyeing up other girls as to how attractive they are and how well dressed they are. Something boys do much less of. We compete over things like sports, drinking and grades.
    Haggling is not a competition? You serious? Wow...

    And you clearly didn't understand my statement, I never said a woman competed with herself, I said they compete with themselves. You'll also find that women compete over sports, drinking and grades.

    And if you think men don't compete over being better dressed to get the girls, or guys, then you're either naive or lying to yourself. I am going with the latter as you seem determined to deny rather obvious truths.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    You clearly do not lift, or play sport.
    I play rugby, weight train and I have done numerous sports throughout my life. What of it?


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    The reason rugby players are big, is not because rugby makes you big, but because the people who are naturally big are better at rugby.
    And that's just utter bull****.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    I will agree women have a similar anatomy. However they on average have higher body fat. Less muscle mass. Shorter. Wider hips. Less coordinated. Making them inferior at sports and general physical activity. That is why we have women's sports that is separate from men's sports. And it is why men take on certain roles such as hunting (speed, power, coordination being very important) whilst women take on different roles. It is perfectly natural and efficient way to structure roles between the genders.
    Except it's not natural. Less muscle mass because they start training later in life than boys. Less coordinated because they partake in activities when younger which do not help develop those skills, where boys generally are made to do such activities from a very young age.

    Women's sports are kept separate because men like you think they need protecting and fail to see how society contributes to keeping women down. You think only in flawed "nature" terms when so much more of it is actually nurture.

    Sure, women lack testosterine and so it takes longer for them to build muscle mass. On average, that's not an issue as most people do not compete in weight lifting, etc. The differences are ultimately not as great as people like you would have us believe.

    If you want to point on some actual natural differences how about these: women are less likely to take pleasure in revenge and are better equip to handle pain, feeling it less acutely than men. Those are some tested differences. Doesn't mean we are not equal.


    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    You know you are dealing with a madwoman when she not only denies the psychological differences between the genders but also the physical ones.
    Or just someone who isn't blinded by sexism. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Ahahaha, this response makes me giggle. For so many more reasons than you could possibly know.

    Why do I have to fight so hard? Because patriarchy makes the other side seem natural when it isn't. The discourse surrounding the entire debate is biased in favour of the bull**** nature argument which fails to take into account any form of social conditioning having an effect on biological processes.




    Ahhh yes, again, let's ignore historical and social facts to make our argument. You know why women see little frontline action to this day? Because sexist attitudes like yours argue that women cannot be as good on the frontline as men, yet there's no evidence of this.

    Women do not need your or any male's protection. They can defend themselves.




    Actually, it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that women would have all those traits in equal abundance as men.




    Not particularly, I have better things to do with my time. Besides, I thought you said it wasn't right to hit a girl? So now you're sexist and a hypocrite?




    Yes, because that's really going to solve the argument. :rolleyes: Or even support your argument at all, when you think of everything I've been trying to say about society impacting biology.




    Haggling is not a competition? You serious? Wow...

    And you clearly didn't understand my statement, I never said a woman competed with herself, I said they compete with themselves. You'll also find that women compete over sports, drinking and grades.

    And if you think men don't compete over being better dressed to get the girls, or guys, then you're either naive or lying to yourself. I am going with the latter as you seem determined to deny rather obvious truths.




    I play rugby, weight train and I have done numerous sports throughout my life. What of it?




    And that's just utter bull****.




    Except it's not natural. Less muscle mass because they start training later in life than boys. Less coordinated because they partake in activities when younger which do not help develop those skills, where boys generally are made to do such activities from a very young age.

    Women's sports are kept separate because men like you think they need protecting and fail to see how society contributes to keeping women down. You think only in flawed "nature" terms when so much more of it is actually nurture.

    Sure, women lack testosterine and so it takes longer for them to build muscle mass. On average, that's not an issue as most people do not compete in weight lifting, etc. The differences are ultimately not as great as people like you would have us believe.

    If you want to point on some actual natural differences how about these: women are less likely to take pleasure in revenge and are better equip to handle pain, feeling it less acutely than men. Those are some tested differences. Doesn't mean we are not equal.




    Or just someone who isn't blinded by sexism. :dontknow:
    Is biology racist by making black people too? Moron!
    Are you actually this stupid as to tell me that our body's metabolisms are gender polarized by society?
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Is biology racist by making black people too?
    No need to insult me.

    Not really sure what your point is or how it is meant to be an argument against anything I've said, so have a good day?
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    As a feminist, I deserve respect from men. If I choose not to shave my vagina, respect that choice. So what if there's small pieces of wotsits tangled between the long strands of pubic hair on my vagina. You don't own me, I'll bathe when I choose to. IF I decide to have sex with you, it will be on MY terms, you got that? So unless you like the taste of Wotsits, you're in for a nasty suprise. Respect me, or else.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    No need to insult me.

    Not really sure what your point is or how it is meant to be an argument against anything I've said, so have a good day?
    So society makes women shorter and less muscular? Men are more competitive because the sex drive in men is larger ffs! The part of the brain that controls sex drive, and competitive nature is larger in men and more active in day to day life than a woman's, testosterone is the key hormone behind the anabolic process of converting lipids(fat) and amino acids into the building blocks of creating more muscle tissue, men have ten times more of this, hence men have less bf% and a higher muscle mass, as for bone density it's quite obvious that as muscle is much more dense than fat, it will require higher bone density to hold it in place, as muscle cells require a lot of energy for being a hotspot for mitochondria, it also means men need a larger calorie intake than women. So tell me again is natrue herself being sexist to you? Just accept that a woman's metabolism is different to a male's.

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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Ahhh yes, again, let's ignore historical and social facts to make our argument. You know why women see little frontline action to this day? Because sexist attitudes like yours argue that women cannot be as good on the frontline as men, yet there's no evidence of this.

    Women do not need your or any male's protection. They can defend themselves.
    Women are more valuable than men in terms of reproducing. That is why they are protected from conflict instinctively. Thus men have a natural propensity towards fighting and women instinctively avoid it.

    Not particularly, I have better things to do with my time. Besides, I thought you said it wasn't right to hit a girl? So now you're sexist and a hypocrite?
    I am explaining why it is considered wrong to hit a girl. It is because we instinctively protect women. I am not saying whether it is right or wrong. I am just explaining what is going on. I am not saying whether it is right or wrong.

    And you clearly didn't understand my statement, I never said a woman competed with herself, I said they compete with themselves. You'll also find that women compete over sports, drinking and grades.
    Sure they do, but not to the same extent as men.

    And if you think men don't compete over being better dressed to get the girls, or guys, then you're either naive or lying to yourself. I am going with the latter as you seem determined to deny rather obvious truths.
    Guys don't talk much about what other guys are wearing. They really don't. Not compared to girls who are always judging their friends.

    The only guy I know who talks about what other people are wearing is gay, and even then it is always about what girls are wearing.


    I play rugby, weight train and I have done numerous sports throughout my life. What of it?
    Ahhh right so you do masculine things and resent the fact you are a woman. And rather than accepting your natural inferiority at things like rugby you come up with some nonsense as to why the patriarchy is oppressing you, rather than your genetics.

    And that's just utter bull****.
    Whatever, think what you like.

    Next you will be telling me height has nothing to do with your propensity to play basketball.



    Except it's not natural. Less muscle mass because they start training later in life than boys. Less coordinated because they partake in activities when younger which do not help develop those skills, where boys generally are made to do such activities from a very young age.
    Muscle mass has little to do with training for sports. When are you going to get that? Muscle mass is to do with genetics and weight training. Not playing sports.

    And girls do not start playing sports later than boys. Infact girls start playing sports at the same age as boys, and then they tend to quit whilst boys keep playing.

    Women's sports are kept separate because men like you think they need protecting and fail to see how society contributes to keeping women down. You think only in flawed "nature" terms when so much more of it is actually nurture.
    You are an idiot.

    Sure, women lack testosterine and so it takes longer for them to build muscle mass. On average, that's not an issue as most people do not compete in weight lifting, etc. The differences are ultimately not as great as people like you would have us believe.
    What about women's hips that are designed for child birth, but are much less efficient than men's hips for applying force. Or how men have bigger more muscular hands. Or broader shoulders.

    If you want to point on some actual natural differences how about these: women are less likely to take pleasure in revenge and are better equip to handle pain, feeling it less acutely than men. Those are some tested differences. Doesn't mean we are not equal.
    Women feel pain more acutely than men (Another example of nature getting women to avoid dangerous situations).

    Or just someone who isn't blinded by sexism. :dontknow:
    Or you are somebody blinded by ideology.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Why can't the female people provide that for themselves? Wasn't this why there was such a strong drive towards equal pay legislation?
    My thoughts exactly. I don't know anyone, any of my friends who would look to the man to provide the house. Yes I'd like a wealthy man so we can have a decent joint income.

    But I don't care if he doesn't earn that much money, as long as he has ambition and respect for his work.
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    (Original post by Bart1331)
    I love downing some booze while sitting with my feet up at the computer watching some shows, then farting loudly cos I can. Being a guy rocks!
    I do that too, except substitute beer for tea.
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    (Original post by Pastel-pennyy)
    These days feminists are taking stuff to the extreme, ginger bread men are called gingerbread 'people'. Firstly my childhood dreams are crushed, and secondly, why the hell would it matter if they were men?? Next thing you know, femminists will be sueing the Yorkie advert for saying 'man fuel for man stuff' like really?? Im a girl but i think its just really extreme and frankly, weird. So just ignore them as far as im concerned and tell them to get back to work like normal people!
    The gingerbread people is no different to the baa baa rainbow sheep ordeal. Perhaps it's more of a reflection on our PC society, not so much a focus of feminism.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Ahahaha, this response makes me giggle. For so many more reasons than you could possibly know.

    Why do I have to fight so hard? Because patriarchy makes the other side seem natural when it isn't. The discourse surrounding the entire debate is biased in favour of the bull**** nature argument which fails to take into account any form of social conditioning having an effect on biological processes.




    Ahhh yes, again, let's ignore historical and social facts to make our argument. You know why women see little frontline action to this day? Because sexist attitudes like yours argue that women cannot be as good on the frontline as men, yet there's no evidence of this.

    Women do not need your or any male's protection. They can defend themselves.




    Actually, it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that women would have all those traits in equal abundance as men.




    Not particularly, I have better things to do with my time. Besides, I thought you said it wasn't right to hit a girl? So now you're sexist and a hypocrite?




    Yes, because that's really going to solve the argument. :rolleyes: Or even support your argument at all, when you think of everything I've been trying to say about society impacting biology.




    Haggling is not a competition? You serious? Wow...

    And you clearly didn't understand my statement, I never said a woman competed with herself, I said they compete with themselves. You'll also find that women compete over sports, drinking and grades.

    And if you think men don't compete over being better dressed to get the girls, or guys, then you're either naive or lying to yourself. I am going with the latter as you seem determined to deny rather obvious truths.




    I play rugby, weight train and I have done numerous sports throughout my life. What of it?




    And that's just utter bull****.




    Except it's not natural. Less muscle mass because they start training later in life than boys. Less coordinated because they partake in activities when younger which do not help develop those skills, where boys generally are made to do such activities from a very young age.

    Women's sports are kept separate because men like you think they need protecting and fail to see how society contributes to keeping women down. You think only in flawed "nature" terms when so much more of it is actually nurture.

    Sure, women lack testosterine and so it takes longer for them to build muscle mass. On average, that's not an issue as most people do not compete in weight lifting, etc. The differences are ultimately not as great as people like you would have us believe.

    If you want to point on some actual natural differences how about these: women are less likely to take pleasure in revenge and are better equip to handle pain, feeling it less acutely than men. Those are some tested differences. Doesn't mean we are not equal.




    Or just someone who isn't blinded by sexism. :dontknow:

    lol..you have to fight so hard because you have the minority opinion, and your way of expressing this opinion earns you no respect. And trying to insinuate that you are the victim of sexism when you are a sexist organisation is rather hypocritical.

    sexist attitudes don't dictate what women can an cannot do..WOMEN do.

    Women can by all means be on the frontline...if they can prove they are just as capable as the high ability males they have there..which they can't. The basic requirements to even get into the army have to be lowered for women,otherwise, there wouldn't be any women in it!. and if there aren't women in the army,thats sexist!.

    In the case of 100metres sprint:
    women compete with women that are of a similar ability. Men compete with men that are of a similar ability. Men are faster..hence why men and women don't compete together.
    the world record for 100m women's sprint (10.49s) doesn't even come close to being rank 25 on the mens league table. so even if she wanted to..she wouldn't pass the physical criteria to compete!
 
 
 
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