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EU, Leftism and Equality Watch

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    The current crisis in Cyprus shows us everything which is wrong with the EU and left-wing politics.

    People-are-not-equal

    Countries-are-not-equal

    One-size-does-not-fit-all

    One-interest-rate-does-not-fit-all-countries

    One-currency-does-not-fit-all-countries

    Disagree? What benefit has the EU provided which we couldnt get before it (don't suggest we couldnt trade with EU countries- pretty sure they'd want our business!)?
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    You need to look at how the Euro was designed in the 1990s
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    The current crisis in Cyprus shows us everything which is wrong with the EU and left-wing politics.

    People-are-not-equal

    Countries-are-not-equal

    One-size-does-not-fit-all

    One-interest-rate-does-not-fit-all-countries

    One-currency-does-not-fit-all-countries

    Disagree? What benefit has the EU provided which we couldnt get before it (don't suggest we couldnt trade with EU countries- pretty sure they'd want our business!)?
    In my view the EU should not have gone as far as a single currency, nor should political expansion have been allowed to go this far. Serious democratic deficit considering the level of money pumped into the EU.
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    The Eurozone hasn't had time to converge properly due to a lack of acceptance in the EU. Everyone expected there to be some serious fluctuations in health of countries upon adopting the Eurozone. Cyprus/Greece/etc. aren't necessarily a bad thing.
    Lmao..
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    My major issue with the EU is that in it's current form it simply does not work. I used to be very eurosceptic, however, the more I learn the more I realise that the EU has huge economic benefits, and is good for trade. It simply has to be reformed, and can go one of two ways- less integration, or more integration. I personally side with less integration and using the EU simply as a trading bloc, and to uphold Human Rights- again in their most fundamental form, so we can actually deport terrorists.
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    What?
    Sorry, it was just the statement you just made was funny haha
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    This. The problem with the EU as it is right now is that it hasn't had the time/acceptance to fully integrate, and so we haven't yet been able to seen the benefits.

    Little integration or full integration are the only two viable options. We're in the middle ground at the moment, which is doomed to fail.
    So you agree with him that EU should merely be a trading bloc, but in your previous post you seemed a strong advocate of the Eurozone, which is quite contradictory of yourself..

    In response to your first post, Germany and France both have the Euro along with most other large countries in Europe, do you still believe that everything will be all fine and dandy if the UK had joint the Euro????
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    No, I don't.

    I said that the only *two* viable options are:
    1) little integration (like a trading bloc)
    2) full on integration (including the eurozone)

    It's not just about joining the Euro. I'd advise you to look up "Stages of economic integration" online somewhere, and have a read
    'The Eurozone hasn't had time to converge properly due to a lack of acceptance in the EU. Everyone expected there to be some serious fluctuations in health of countries upon adopting the Eurozone. Cyprus/Greece/etc. aren't necessarily a bad thing.'

    This is what you said, that the Eurozone hasnt been accepted, define accepted. To me that means its failing because countries arent using it, they are denying it, in simpler terms

    You then agreed with the guy whom stated the EU should have little integration, which effectively means no Eurozone, just a trading bloc. So you contradicted yourself, which is what i said..
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    Everything in bold is true.

    I agreed with the guy who stated that the EU should have little integration, but look closely at what he said:

    "My major issue with the EU is that in it's current form it simply does not work. I used to be very eurosceptic, however, the more I learn the more I realise that the EU has huge economic benefits, and is good for trade. It simply has to be reformed, and can go one of two ways- less integration, or more integration. I personally side with less integration and using the EU simply as a trading bloc, and to uphold Human Rights- again in their most fundamental form, so we can actually deport terrorists."

    - The EU doesn't work in its current form
    - It needs reforming
    - His *personal* side is that we should go down the scale to little integration - I didn't comment on which of the two extremes I'd want to go with.
    You agreed with his post in general by stating 'This.' You didnt say you disagreed with any of it.

    If you're still arguing the points in bold, i have already commented on that in an above post, but i will reiterate it.

    Name a country in Europe that you believe wouldve made the Eurozone work if they had adopted it.
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    Once again the brutal reality catches up with those living under leftist regimes.

    We're told it's about equality, human rights and a pooling of wealth so we can share it. But really it's about control and taking our money. Quite literally in the case of Cyprus as the Eurocrats demand that Cypriot politicians empty Cypriot bank accounts to fund the bailout.

    When will we learn?
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    (Original post by SaraWarah)
    My bad, I've now bolded the bit I agreed with

    It's not so much about one country adopting it as going even further than that and pursuing fiscal union.
    Well a full scale fiscal union is pretty extreme imo, and the success of the Eurozone since its introduction doesnt show any signs of a fiscal union in the future.

    The three main parties risk turning into a laughing stock like some old lib dem mp's who were advocates of adopting the Euro. The ongoing crisis is a bit of 'Told you so' to all of them, and is a contributing factor to the lib dems loss of support.
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    (Original post by ajh1990)
    My major issue with the EU is that in it's current form it simply does not work. I used to be very eurosceptic, however, the more I learn the more I realise that the EU has huge economic benefits, and is good for trade. It simply has to be reformed, and can go one of two ways- less integration, or more integration. I personally side with less integration and using the EU simply as a trading bloc, and to uphold Human Rights- again in their most fundamental form, so we can actually deport terrorists.
    Sorry, but there are two legal Europes.

    First, we have the European Court of Justice (this is the court of the European Union) This sits in Luxembourg.

    Secondly, we have the European Court of Human Rights (this applies the ECHR) This sits in Strasbourg.

    They are separate institutions. The ECtHR has no relation to the EU. This is a popular misconception.

    So we can leave the EU and we'd still be signatory to the ECHR
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Once again the brutal reality catches up with those living under leftist regimes.

    We're told it's about equality, human rights and a pooling of wealth so we can share it. But really it's about control and taking our money. Quite literally in the case of Cyprus as the Eurocrats demand that Cypriot politicians empty Cypriot bank accounts in order to pay the crisis.

    When will we learn?
    A most despicable exercise of state violence.
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    (Original post by Scots King)
    A most despicable exercise of state violence.
    It's legalised theft- taking 10% of all deposits!
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    (Original post by a729)
    It's legalised theft- taking 10% of all deposits!
    Yeah it really is awful...yet again the wrong people are paying for this banking crisis.

    Further, the use of state violence raises questions of legitimation. What right does the Eurozone (or Germany, may as well be one and the same thing now) have to demand this levy? What right do they have at all? Who voted for them? Disgusting.

    I hope this is the pin that bursts the EU bubble
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    The current crisis in Cyprus shows us everything which is wrong with the EU and left-wing politics.

    People-are-not-equal

    Countries-are-not-equal

    One-size-does-not-fit-all

    One-interest-rate-does-not-fit-all-countries

    One-currency-does-not-fit-all-countries

    Disagree? What benefit has the EU provided which we couldnt get before it (don't suggest we couldnt trade with EU countries- pretty sure they'd want our business!)?
    In what way is the EU left wing? Its a neo-liberal organisation that is about "freeing" markets. That's not left wing.
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    (Original post by ajh1990)
    My major issue with the EU is that in it's current form it simply does not work. I used to be very eurosceptic, however, the more I learn the more I realise that the EU has huge economic benefits, and is good for trade. It simply has to be reformed, and can go one of two ways- less integration, or more integration. I personally side with less integration and using the EU simply as a trading bloc, and to uphold Human Rights- again in their most fundamental form, so we can actually deport terrorists.
    I think on behalf of all eurosceptics- none of us have a problem with a trading bloc BUT its complete BS when we are told "trading bloc" means we MUST have free movement of labour. Complete rubbish!
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    I think on behalf of all eurosceptics- none of us have a problem with a trading bloc BUT its complete BS when we are told "trading bloc" means we MUST have free movement of labour. Complete rubbish!
    I used to be all for that. However, free movement of people does work- not in its current form though. EU Citizenship is fine- free movement IF you can support yourself. I'd propose to get rid of all the other stuff- under current EU law it's possible to work part time and bring with you your non-EU wife, 58 kids and her cancer stricken grandmother... All to claim benefits and use the NHS- now that's ridiculous.
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    The failure of Cyprus isn't anything to do with equality or left wing politics.

    Cyprus was a low tax economy that tried to base its economy on being a tax haven. Similar to Ireland with its low rates of corporation tax.

    Its interesting that these low tax economies have failed where the Scandinavian countries and Germany where there is a large welfare state have managed to stay solvent.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    The failure of Cyprus isn't anything to do with equality or left wing politics.

    Cyprus was a low tax economy that tried to base its economy on being a tax haven. Similar to Ireland with its low rates of corporation tax.

    Its interesting that these low tax economies have failed where the Scandinavian countries and Germany where there is a large welfare state have managed to stay solvent.
    Can Cyprus control their own monetary policy?
 
 
 
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