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5 UKIP-esque policies. Are they really that bad? Watch

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    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
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    (Original post by chefdaall )
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
    I agree with all the points but no.4 -NI should be ringfenced and used to fund a UK shops sovereign wealth fund to invest in infrastructure predominantly in the UK but also elsewhere
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    (Original post by a729)
    I agree with all the points but no.4 -NI should be ringfenced and used to fund a UK shops sovereign wealth fund to invest in infrastructure predominantly in the UK but also elsewhere
    We could still syphon off a % of income tax into a sovereign wealth/investment fund but for the sake of simplification I'd like to see the two combined as Osbourne suggested a couple of years ago. The trouble is off course that once you start collecting your state pension you no longer have to pay NI, so if they're rolled up into a single rate it'll mean old workers will have to pay the same in tax as younger workers, oh the horror! Old people get far too much in this country as it is, they need a dose of economic reality in their lives.
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    Christmas Bonus, I've got nothing against it honestly. Especially considering the time of the year.
    Can't scrap the Winter Fuel Payment, innocent people would die that one is a necessity. I've got nothing against reforming it though and having it means tested based on the wealth of the person claiming it but those in poverty or little income need it.
    I don't believe in Foreign Aid on an ideological viewpoint, so go for it.
    Merging of Income Tax and NI is a long term commitment of the current government.
    I agree on scrapping subsidies in some energy sectors. Wind yes, but not solar.

    However the rest of UKIP policy such as that on Immigration, EU and Education quite frankly disgusts me.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
    Several people have told me that the UKIP are racist. Isn't it racist to talk about Britain England etc. They told me that this is like saying that Britain and England are better than other countries. Plus they say that UKIP are anti-immigration which is really quite crazy considering the benefits of immigration. Also when people start being anti-immigration, its like pointing the finger at certain types of people and that's like Hitler.


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    (Original post by Groundhog2013)
    Several people have told me that the UKIP are racist. Isn't it racist to talk about Britain England etc. They told me that this is like saying that Britain and England are better than other countries. Plus they say that UKIP are anti-immigration which is really quite crazy considering the benefits of immigration. Also when people start being anti-immigration, its like pointing the finger at certain types of people and that's like Hitler.


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    I think you've been misinformed. Were you talking to a New Labour voter? They hate us UKIPers as they see us as a threat to their cosy little cartel with the Tories and Lib Dems. Things were easy before we came along, occupy the center ground and label everyone else 'racists' and 'xenophobes' to get them to shut up. You can;t get away with that along longer though.

    Welcome anyway, always great to have a new member around
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    I think its the rest of their policies that are the issue. Most UKIP voters are just voting due to the lack of a credible part on the right.
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    (Original post by Groundhog2013)
    Several people have told me that the UKIP are racist. Always form your own opinion after looking at the facts if you really want to judge something. Isn't it racist to talk about Britain England etc. Of course not. They told me that this is like saying that Britain and England are better than other countries. England is in many ways better then many countries. Its also worse in some ways then some countries. So what? Plus they say that UKIP are anti-immigration which is really quite crazy considering the benefits of immigration. Also when people start being anti-immigration, its like pointing the finger at certain types of people and that's like Hitler. There are benefits to immigration, there are also negatives. Its not being like Hitler to point that out.


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    And Im not even a UKIP supporter. After reading your post again, I'm going to assume you're very young, have read very little about British politics or maybe English isn't your first language?
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    (Original post by anonstudent1)
    And Im not even a UKIP supporter. After reading your post again, I'm going to assume you're very young, have read very little about British politics or maybe English isn't your first language?
    Or maybe its laced with sarcasm?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I think you've been misinformed. Were you talking to a New Labour voter? They hate us UKIPers as they see us as a threat to their cosy little cartel with the Tories and Lib Dems. Things were easy before we came along, occupy the center ground and label everyone else 'racists' and 'xenophobes' to get them to shut up. You can;t get away with that along longer though.

    Welcome anyway, always great to have a new member around
    If you watch the film Land and Freedom, you will see that the communists didn't care about countries. They were all for one. Also globalisation is against countries and that is so 21st century. The country needs to become European Union, African Union, Asian Union etc. then all those merge to form a single world government. Isn't that the way all the world leader say things will happen? Being independent is to escape all of this. Its like being the lone child in the playground. Look at Switzerland, they always stand alone and in the 2 world wars they just sat on the fence and stayed out. Who wouldn't want to be part of the real flow of the world.


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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    Or maybe its laced with sarcasm?
    Perhaps.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
    Norway does a similar thing with the Christmas bonus, tax is lower in the time leading up to Christmas obviously it is all just redistributing and as a result tax is marginally higher in the 11 other months of the year. But its a nice policy to give people a boost and I doubt scrapping it will remove the deficit.

    Also UKIP is always saying to us how it wants us to copy Norway, so surely it would be in favour?
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    1. Really dont see a problem with it, its just £10 to those in hardship, not everyone on benefits is a scrounger.
    2. Again, what about the poor pensioners who can't afford to pay those bills, thats risking people's lives.
    3. Too complicated, but to be fair, its another way of gaining influence and putting British interests in other nations especially where there are resources.
    4. Again, thats too much of a short term view, why invest in conventional generation which uses resources which are running out and becoming more and more expensive. Also its not exactly cheap for individuals to buy such products, it requires incentive, I rather have investment in energy generation which is sustainable in the long run and puts us ahead of other nations when resources become scarce,
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
    Yup, waste of money.
    No, all benefits (pensioner or otherwise) should be means tested instead.
    Fine.
    Yup.
    No, it's one of the least bad things to subsidize in my opinion although a review in 2020 would not go amiss.


    (Original post by a729)
    I agree with all the points but no.4 -NI should be ringfenced and used to fund a UK shops sovereign wealth fund to invest in infrastructure predominantly in the UK but also elsewhere
    I personally believe that we don't need to fund a sovereign wealth fund from income taxes, rather we should exploit our seemingly vast reserves of shale oil (along with conventional oil and gas) and any other one off bounties we get (sale of RBS, 4G auction) along with combining local pension pots (already worth collectively around £145bn), if we have a Norway like law which gives say 3% back to the treasury each year then i think it would be of great benefit to the nation. You don't want too much exposure in the UK though because it means that the fund will be hit hard if there is a domestic shock.

    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Christmas Bonus, I've got nothing against it honestly. Especially considering the time of the year.
    Can't scrap the Winter Fuel Payment, innocent people would die that one is a necessity. I've got nothing against reforming it though and having it means tested based on the wealth of the person claiming it but those in poverty or little income need it.
    I don't believe in Foreign Aid on an ideological viewpoint, so go for it.
    Merging of Income Tax and NI is a long term commitment of the current government.
    I agree on scrapping subsidies in some energy sectors. Wind yes, but not solar.

    However the rest of UKIP policy such as that on Immigration, EU and Education quite frankly disgusts me.
    Largely agree although it's their health, environmental, EU, immigration and some economic policies which mainly turn me away (the 11% cut for those on £40k+ is unfunded and dependent on the laffer curve being optimal at a much lower level than currently).
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Can't scrap the Winter Fuel Payment, innocent people would die that one is a necessity.
    I hate to sound all harsh and unsympathetic, but, especially when money is so tight, why can't old people do what normal people do when cold and just put on extra layers of clothing?
    During the winter I only turned my central heating on for an hour twice a day to make sure the water in the pipes didn't freeze, otherwise I just put on a norwegian jumper and a thick army fleece.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.

    £10 isn't going to bankrupt the nation. I don't feel that this is a real policy, more a minor alteration.




    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?

    ​The argument is that means testing would cost more money than it would save in the long run, however perhaps some middle ground could be found? (bear in mind that it is a blanket benefit as the majority of pensioners make use of it, and if it disappears then there is a real chance of death.) People like Alan Sugar make up around 1% of pensioners, and will probably give back far more in taxes than they take.



    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity,

    I do agree with this to an extent, however aid is a valuable diplomatic tool and can help improve international relations if spent well.




    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth

    I have a feeling that most of the main parties are suggesting something along these lines?



    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on

    I do agree here, the only realistic sustainable option for future power generation is nuclear, unless something revolutionary pops up in the near future that is the only option.
    You seem to have skipped most (all?) of UKIP's more contentious policies regarding, immigration, education, economics etc. Most voters would agree with the above five to some extent, however completely oppose their more radical ideas.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I hate to sound all harsh and unsympathetic.
    Yeah, well you did.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Some of these aren't official UKIP policies but they're the sort of thing UKIP would do if they gained power, are they really that unpalatable at a time when our deficit is north of £120bn?:

    • Scrap the crazy £10 Christmas Bonus, which is eligible to those on certain benefits. This is New Labour tokenism and bribery at it's finest, it has no place under a UKIP administration. If we want benefits raised by £10 then do so openly, not via the back door.
    • Scrap the Winter Fuel Payment which is another crass form of financial bribery. Why should £multi-millionaire pensioners like Alan Sugar and Peter Stringellow receive these tax free benefits when the money could be put to much better use? Due to an EU anomoly it's also paid to certain ex-pats who live on tropical island. Why?
    • Review and prune our Foreign Aid bill as necessary. The UK is the hub of international charity spawning giants like Oxfam and Christian Aid, you can't say we don't do our bit! So we don't need the state spending £7bn+ on our behalf much of which is wasted or misused in a time of austerity
    • Merge Income tax and N.I - the tax system is too complicated. This would help simplify things for employers and also aid growth.
    • Reduce subsidies to windturbines and solar (people could still install them if they wanted!) and use the money to help upgrade and expand conventional generation, i.e coal/gas/nuclear. Climate change is important yes, but it's not as important as keeping the lights on.
    ****ing bad
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    (Original post by Will Lucky)
    Yeah, well you did.
    Well in that case, cry me a river. The taxpayer shouldn't have to spend hundreds of pounds on a problem that can be solved with a tenner.
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    (Original post by Lampoon)
    The argument is that means testing would cost more money than it would save in the long run, however perhaps some middle ground could be found? (bear in mind that it is a blanket benefit as the majority of pensioners make use of it, and if it disappears then there is a real chance of death.) People like Alan Sugar make up around 1% of pensioners, and will probably give back far more in taxes than they take.

    The Winter Fuel Payment was a blatant attempt by New Labour to bribe a proportion of the electorate with cash in return for votes, and when a UKIP or a Tory party come along and point out that we can't afford it and that its unfair on everybody else Labourites use it as an opportunity to show how uncaring and nasty they are, because UKIP/Tories want to 'steal' old people's heating.

    I would abolish it overnight and look at ways of reducing electricty and gas bills for everyone, not just the chosen few.



    You seem to have skipped most (all?) of UKIP's more contentious policies regarding, immigration, education, economics etc. Most voters would agree with the above five to some extent, however completely oppose their more radical ideas.
    I didn't know if most people would agree with those 5 policies, if they do why hasn't a major party acted upon them yet?
 
 
 
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