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F1 - Vettel forcefully overtakes team-mate Webber despite being told not to do so Watch

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21917254

    I'm not much of an F1 follower but when a sport like F1 that doesn't draw you in but you keep an interest in, it takes a juicy background storyline to temporarily hook you in.

    I saw the highlights of the over-taking and it seemed to me that Vettel, was going to do whatever it took to go past and forget adhering to rules.

    He was champion last year and it seems he's willing to do what it takes to be champion once again.

    Anyone watch the whole race?

    Thoughts?
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    Yeah I watched the whole race. I think it shows a complete lack of respect from Vettel to be honest. He was told by his team to hold position so not to ruin the teams chances of getting a 1, 2 finish. I think Mark Webber is perfectly justified to be pissed at Vettel as he has moved aside under instruction from the team many times before without refusing to do so. It just showed a complete lack of respect from Vettel. What is interesting is just behind in the 3, 4 position for the Mercedes cars, Rosberg actually listened to his team captain (Ross Braun) and held position even though he was pushing Hamilton for 3rd; shows a respect for the team captain. No doubt nothing will come of it in terms of team punishment for Vettel..
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    I think something happened in a GP in 2010 between Webber/Vettel. The dynamic of an F1 drivers' relationship is underpinned with a desire to win, whether you're number one and two. Webber would have won that race but maybe Vettel felt he had to win to try and set a benchmark against the rest.
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    Problem is, Webber was driving to instruction from the team so he was preserving his tyres and fuel. Although it is only one guy driving, it is a team sport F1, and if your driver is going to refuse to listen to the team then I think it shows a great deal of disrespect not only for Webber but for the entire Red Bull management who sent through the orders to hold position.
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    Webber said to Vettel post race, para-phrasing here abit : "There was an M21" which means team orders have to be obeyed. Vettel, vaguely might have said he didn't hear it which I fail to believe.

    There was another overtaking issue (well, in this case, the lack of it) between Hamilton and Rosberg with the latter quicker than his team-mate but they stuck to orders. Hamilton didn't seem chuffed with the way events went but Mercedes probably wanted Hamilton to get the podium as he's more likely to be challenging for the top position.
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    (Original post by Aky786UK)
    Webber said to Vettel post race, para-phrasing here abit : "There was an M21" which means team orders have to be obeyed. Vettel, vaguely might have said he didn't hear it which I fail to believe.

    There was another overtaking issue (well, in this case, the lack of it) between Hamilton and Rosberg with the latter quicker than his team-mate but they stuck to orders. Hamilton didn't seem chuffed with the way events went but Mercedes probably wanted Hamilton to get the podium as he's more likely to be challenging for the top position.
    Exactly. It comes down to Hamilton and Rosberg listened to team instructions. Webber also listened to the team instruction. Vettel on the other hand had other plans.

    The M-21 is where the team turns down the engine I believe to preserve the tyres, engine and fuel and make sure that the car makes it to the end of the race.
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    (Original post by Colinthepod)
    The M-21 is where the team turns down the engine I believe to preserve the tyres, engine and fuel and make sure that the car makes it to the end of the race.
    Oh right, well that even adds more scrutiny for Vettel as what he did compromised technical aspects of the vehicle. If one guy follows and the other doesn't then he deserves everything he gets. Webber looked ticked but I'd imagine if it was Hamilton or Massa, they would have been more vocal.
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    I'm a Webber fan but Vettel was faster then him throughout the race. Red Bull should have told him to move over a lot sooner.

    Even so, an order is an order, Seb may need a loyal teammate later on in the year. I'm surprised that Red Bull sound so annoyed with Seb. Maybe he has signed that Ferrari contract after all?
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    Am I the only one that thinks this situation is a joke? I was under the impression it was motor racing not follow the leader! Vettel is a triple world champion, wants to be recognised as one of the greatest drivers ever by going for a 4th world title, why the hell should he hang back and accept 2nd knowing he can go on and win the race?

    Why can't teams just let the drivers race instead of intervening by turning down engines and sending out instructions? If Vettel had obeyed these orders, (thank God he didn't for the sake of the sport), then we'd have had a top 4 "under instruction" to stay where they are. That's not sport, or entertainment. What a complete and utter joke.

    If Webber wants to blame anyone, he should blame his team for turning his engine down. If they had just left things as they were, it was more than likely Webber would have won anyway? But because they intervened in the natural course of racing, we have this charade.

    Good on Vettel for wanting to win. A true sportsman.
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    (Original post by MittenRef)
    Am I the only one that thinks this situation is a joke? I was under the impression it was motor racing not follow the leader! Vettel is a triple world champion, wants to be recognised as one of the greatest drivers ever by going for a 4th world title, why the hell should he hang back and accept 2nd knowing he can go on and win the race?

    Why can't teams just let the drivers race instead of intervening by turning down engines and sending out instructions? If Vettel had obeyed this orders, (thank God he didn't for the sake of the sport), then we'd have had a top 4 "under instruction" to stay where they are. That's not sport, or entertainment. What a complete and utter joke.

    If Webber wants to blame anyone, he should blame his team for turning his engine down. If they had just left things as they were, it was more than likely Webber would have won anyway? But because they intervened in the natural course of racing, we have this charade.

    Good on Vettel for wanting to win. A true sportsman.
    Exactly.


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    (Original post by MittenRef)
    Am I the only one that thinks this situation is a joke? I was under the impression it was motor racing not follow the leader! Vettel is a triple world champion, wants to be recognised as one of the greatest drivers ever by going for a 4th world title, why the hell should he hang back and accept 2nd knowing he can go on and win the race?

    Why can't teams just let the drivers race instead of intervening by turning down engines and sending out instructions? If Vettel had obeyed this orders, (thank God he didn't for the sake of the sport), then we'd have had a top 4 "under instruction" to stay where they are. That's not sport, or entertainment. What a complete and utter joke.

    If Webber wants to blame anyone, he should blame his team for turning his engine down. If they had just left things as they were, it was more than likely Webber would have won anyway? But because they intervened in the natural course of racing, we have this charade.

    Good on Vettel for wanting to win. A true sportsman.
    Vettel is in no way a true sportsman. He betrayed Webber's trust that he would not try to overtake him and then he tried to wriggle out of it by claiming he didn't understand the call. He knew what the orders were, but he ignored them because he knew Red Bull wouldn't blame them as they have a clear bias towards him. Vettel may have behaved like a champion, but he did not behave as a sportsman. Exploiting the fact that his teammate had turned his engine down was bang out of order.
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    It's good to see people who don't usually watch F1 get involved :cute:
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    The fact is, Webber turned down his engine, and Vettel didn't. That's why Vettel was quicker. I think what Christian Horner said in an interview afterwards speaks volumes about Vette;.
    “When asked why the team did not ask Vettel to relinquish the position to Webber in the closing stages to make up for his defiance, Horner said: ‘Do you honestly think that if we had told him ‘slow down and give the place back’, he would have given it back?’”
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    In my opinion this is a complete non issue. It a racing sport, Vettel was faster and he raced and overtook Webber. Anything beyond that is an internal team matter.

    I don't really blame anyone. Vettel has the rutherless streak you need to win, Alonso has been involved in controversy with Hamilton, Schumi is famous for it, as was Senna. All the best drivers ultimately are so competitive they don't play well with others.

    The team needs to decide if it is going to punish Vettel or not. If it doesn't any team orders beyond now are worthless. The team needs to decide whether they are Vettel are bigger.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Vettel is in no way a true sportsman. He betrayed Webber's trust that he would not try to overtake him and then he tried to wriggle out of it by claiming he didn't understand the call. He knew what the orders were, but he ignored them because he knew Red Bull wouldn't blame them as they have a clear bias towards him. Vettel may have behaved like a champion, but he did not behave as a sportsman. Exploiting the fact that his teammate had turned his engine down was bang out of order.
    But why the hell do people like Horner and co. turn down drivers engines? Why? This "team orders" business is literally destroying the entertainment value and leaves us with controversial incidents like this. It's wrong.
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    It must be taken into consideration that both drivers were told to turn the engines down after the final pit stop.

    Vettel isn't above the team. Frankly, he's only won 3 titles because of the Adrian Newey factor.
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    I posted this a while back on the Malaysian Grand Prix thread:

    This is the thing... Alonso and Schumacher used to have team orders to their benefit, plenty of times. Ferrari were open in saying they had a no. 1 and no. 2 drivers. Red Bull strictly deny favouring certain drivers. But in Silverstone 2010 Red Bull brought 2 upgraded wings. Seb's broke in FP3 and they took Mark's upgraded wing and stuck it on Seb's. Webber was p1ssed off, but won the race. Dr Marko criticises Webber in the press, but not Seb. There's plenty of other examples, I'll say later. "Not bad for a number 2 driver".

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    (Original post by MittenRef)
    But why the hell do people like Horner and co. turn down drivers engines? Why? This "team orders" business is literally destroying the entertainment value and leaves us with controversial incidents like this. It's wrong.
    The teams are limited to 8 engines per season and so they don't want to burn out these engines unnecessarily I agree it makes the sport more tactical and less entertaining, but that's the way it is.
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    I think Vettel has shown himself for what he really is, Greedy. No matter what you decide, agree on as sportsmen, he's shown it all means nothing. He'll stab you in the back for that brief moment of glory. As soon as Webber entered the room,
    Vettel felt uncomfortable. This demonstrates he has no care whatsoever for his actions while committing them, yet wants others to forget about what he has done after the fact.
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    (Original post by MittenRef)
    Am I the only one that thinks this situation is a joke? I was under the impression it was motor racing not follow the leader! Vettel is a triple world champion, wants to be recognised as one of the greatest drivers ever by going for a 4th world title, why the hell should he hang back and accept 2nd knowing he can go on and win the race?

    Why can't teams just let the drivers race instead of intervening by turning down engines and sending out instructions? If Vettel had obeyed these orders, (thank God he didn't for the sake of the sport), then we'd have had a top 4 "under instruction" to stay where they are. That's not sport, or entertainment. What a complete and utter joke.

    If Webber wants to blame anyone, he should blame his team for turning his engine down. If they had just left things as they were, it was more than likely Webber would have won anyway? But because they intervened in the natural course of racing, we have this charade.

    Good on Vettel for wanting to win. A true sportsman.
    I think it's probably always been like this, it's just lately that we can hear the team radios on the telly.

    I thought the same as you - and it was great for the fans of course, close racing - but it is unfair when Webber is always following orders for Vettel's benefit (and was even himself following the "slow down and bring it home" order at the time) but Vettel was not prepared to comply with the strategy for Webber's benefit
 
 
 
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