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Is debt a form of slavery? watch

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    Is debt a form of slavery? Chancellors bought in 5% mortgages again. Is it just another form of slavery? Its likely you will spend a large proportion of your working life paying it off! Same with student debt.
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    You have a choice to take out a loan. How else would people pay for houses?
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    (Original post by james22)
    You have a choice to take out a loan. How else would people pay for houses?
    By not interfering with the free market for property and allowing them to fall. I don't think you have a choice especially with social welfare being cut, people depend on debt such as Wonga to bridge a necessary gap.
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    I don't believe so, ultimately people have the choice whether or not to accept the financial cost and also people have the ability to default with a welfare state to fall back on.

    I do agree that we should leave house prices to fall however.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I don't believe so, ultimately people have the choice whether or not to accept the financial cost and also people have the ability to default with a welfare state to fall back on.

    I do agree that we should leave house prices to fall however.
    They only have a choice in the beginning. Would slavery be okay if the slave initially agreed to it, do you think?
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    If anything I'd call it servitude but still.
    I remember hearing a little saying though if you owe the bank a thousand the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a million though you own the bank, slightly dated back from when a million was worth something but it still holds firm.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    By not interfering with the free market for property and allowing them to fall. I don't think you have a choice especially with social welfare being cut, people depend on debt such as Wonga to bridge a necessary gap.
    How does the government currently stop house prices from falling out of interest?
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    (Original post by anonstudent1)
    How does the government currently stop house prices from falling out of interest?
    There's nothing wrong with falling house prices. I personally believe we need falling house prices. The government did all it could to keep them artificially high through bailing the banks and now their offering 5% mortgage guarantees.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    There's nothing wrong with falling house prices. I personally believe we need falling house prices. The government did all it could to keep them artificially high through bailing the banks and now their offering 5% mortgage guarantees.
    im curious why you feel low house prices is a good thing?
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    (Original post by The Socktor)
    They only have a choice in the beginning. Would slavery be okay if the slave initially agreed to it, do you think?
    There's the whole voluntariness thing, but we can ignore that. There's also the fact that you're not dominated in every (or indeed any) respect by a creditor -- you just owe them money. And the fact that you don't get killed for defaulting, or get any kind of punishment at all, other than that they get to take the proceeds of sale of the house you bought mostly with their money to the extent of your debt. (If it's a mortgage, which I'm assuming since we're basing this on 'your whole life'. If it's not, and you don't have stuff for them to take, my point's stronger.)

    No, debt is about as far from slavery as anything is. This is one of those questions that sounds really deep and thoughtful, but is actually asinine.
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    (Original post by cl_steele)
    im curious why you feel low house prices is a good thing?
    The government wants to keep asset prices high to make its debt appear to be low. Im not saying "low house prices" im saying house prices should be at their free market ideal state which is generally lower. This helps deflate debt allows more money to the individual and gets rid of an unnecessary bubble. And it stops people from proposed slavery, everybody needs somewhere to stay. Before someone comes in and says you can rent, if a house price is 50% overvalued you will also pay a higher rent than required regardless.

    The 3.5billion the chancellor has proposed for buying houses can be used somewhere else towards more productive means rather than asset price speculation.
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    (Original post by The Socktor)
    They only have a choice in the beginning. Would slavery be okay if the slave initially agreed to it, do you think?
    It's not slavery if they agree to it.


    (Original post by cl_steele)
    im curious why you feel low house prices is a good thing?
    I don't think anybody wants a large 2007 style 25% depreciation, when people like me (ant i assume OP has similar reasons) suggest that we want lower house prices what we really mean is stagnant prices or a slight fall so that house prices become more affordable. The problem of course is that we need to increase supply and this is not occuring.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I don't think anybody wants a large 2007 style 25% depreciation, when people like me (ant i assume OP has similar reasons) suggest that we want lower house prices what we really mean is stagnant prices or a slight fall so that house prices become more affordable. The problem of course is that we need to increase supply and this is not occuring.
    The point you make about supply is important, but what's more important is that we have more affordable housing. Especially in London, we also need more social housing. I'm not sure the buy council flat scheme was the best one since we now have a shortage of them. But I'm not sure what the situation is like in other places.

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    would not take a genius to work that one out now will it. When a country is in debt the idea is they will forever be in debt
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    Yes, so long as there exists no choice in accumulating that debt.
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    Simple answer to the OP question - yes.
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    You have choice, stop being a socialist with a silly view of the world. You lot had no issue with enslaving our nation (under this definition) so don't get all high and mighty and take issue with mortgages now.
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    (Original post by IAmThatcher)
    You have choice, stop being a socialist with a silly view of the world. You lot had no issue with enslaving our nation (under this definition) so don't get all high and mighty and take issue with mortgages now.
    Thanks for the advice Maggie.
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    In essence, yes. The fact that you have a 'choice' is irrelevant - as someone has already said, would slavery be OK the the slave agreed to it in a contract at the start? Also, it's practically impossible to live any sort of meaningful life without going into debt, unless you're born into an ultra-rich family - it's no choice in reality.

    Early colonial America provides us with a good way of looking at this. The majority of colonists were indentured servants, people bound to work for a certain number of years before achieving their freedom. There were three main origins of these servants:

    i) Those who voluntarily agreed to the indenture.

    ii) Those who had it forced on them as punishment for a crime.

    iii) Those who were kidnapped.

    Most African slaves were iii), though the authorities and slave-traders maintained for years the fiction that they were ii).

    Originally, permanent slavery was illegal, though it was later permitted. The main reason why blacks became slaves and whites didn't was, contrary to what most people think, not really to do with white supremacism, but that British law did not allow permanent slavery as punishment for a crime, only indentured servitude, whereas slave-traders chose deliberate ignorance on whether this was the case in Africa. The argument on racial grounds came later.
 
 
 
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