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    (Original post by tjf8)
    Do you own any leather clothing or accessories?
    To be fair, I think she is arguing mainly against people like me who "enjoy" the kill, rather than those who do it for materials/meat.
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    If I'd grown up somewhere rural, I'd almost certainly be up for hunting - some of my housemates friends (he's from rural Wales) keep ferrets and dogs to go and catch rabbits with. I'm pro fox hunting as well, since some fox decapitated my guinea pigs in front of me when I was about 5, I have something of a grudge.

    I think unless you're a vegetarian/vegan who actually cares about animals, then it's no big deal to hunt. We're hunters and gatherers by instinct. Just because of the convenience of the food industry, doesn't mean that hunting should be made obsolete.

    (My housemate's friends, by the way, eat all the animals they hunt, and work with the fur. It's not wasteful and is far more natural than anything processed you buy in Iceland)
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    I think unless you're a vegetarian/vegan who actually cares about animals, then it's no big deal to hunt.
    Yes, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. Hunting's no big deal unless you actually care about animals.
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    (Original post by miser)
    Yes, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. Hunting's no big deal unless you actually care about animals.
    We who don't care don't go bashing you lot for your care...

    Why do you bash us?

    Persecution I tell yah!
    Your assaulting our belifes.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    To be fair, I think she is arguing mainly against people like me who "enjoy" the kill, rather than those who do it for materials/meat.
    (Original post by la95)
    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die, and furthermore these are unnecessary deaths; you don't NEED anything from them (not that I think needing something from them necessarily justifies killing them anyway).
    My point is that we no longer need animals for clothing or materials either – we have synthetics and man-made materials that do that job now, and cut out the killing of animals. This renders the deaths of animals killed in order to manufacture clothing and accessories superfluous "in the 21st century", and so if you don't like hunting because it's "unneccessary" then you also have to give up leather handbags (for example). It's a bit presumptive (you, la95, could be some sort of nun or intense vegan) and that's why I phrased it as a question, but it's a common double-standard.

    (Original post by la95)
    These animals are terrified and most likely in pain when they die
    Besides, as I've said, in what state do you think wild animals are when they die, as 99% of them do, by starvation or cold or being eaten alive? Shooting an animal is no worse than the fate it would face otherwise; in many cases it is more humane.
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    (Original post by miser)
    Yes, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. Hunting's no big deal unless you actually care about animals.
    fair point, that was pretty badly phrased on my part. I more meant that, in the same vein of vegetarians wearing leather, vegetarians are kind of predisposed to be anti-hunting. Which is fine nowadays since we're sentient and you don't need to eat meat, despite being evolved to do so, because you can make the conscious decision to avoid it.

    I don't agree with blanket bans on hunting (I dont think there are any atm except for fox hunting, but I know some people want it banned), particularly when keeping raptors or hunting dogs. I think it should be up to the hunter (or not-hunter as the case may be) as to whether they hunt or not, not some overruling body of government to make the decision for you.

    Hope that's phrased a little better, my medication makes me very woozy so I find it harder to write out decent arguments sometimes
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    I think anyone who eats meat should at least be prepared to kill an animal themselves, if only to justify/understand their diet better. However, killing something purely because you get a kick out of it, doesn't sit right with me. Those photos of you grinning and bragging about your kill aren't particularly nice to look at. I don't think it's nice to actually enjoy killing something, and doing it for sport.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    We who don't care don't go bashing you lot for your care...

    Why do you bash us?

    Persecution I tell yah!
    Your assaulting our belifes.
    Because who on Earth opposes caring about animals?
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    We who don't care don't go bashing you lot for your care...

    Why do you bash us?

    Persecution I tell yah!
    Your assaulting our belifes.
    I'm against all unnecessary suffering and injury. I regret that that's too radical for you.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I am noticing more and more, it's women who are the most offended by it, while most men just shrug and crack on.

    I take it you are a Vegetarian anyway?
    What a laughable thing to say. I think you will notice that Miser, who agreed with my post, is male, as are many other individuals in this thread who are against hunting. Furthermore, I have arrived at the conclusion that it is immoral to kill animals through a process of rationalisation and reason. I do not believe such processes to be gender-specific.

    Yes, I am a vegetarian.

    (Original post by tjf8)
    Do you own any leather clothing or accessories?
    No, I do not.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    To be fair, I think she is arguing mainly against people like me who "enjoy" the kill, rather than those who do it for materials/meat.
    In this instance, yes I am. Though as stated above, I am a vegetarian and do not purchase or own anything made of leather.
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    (Original post by la95)
    No, I do not.
    Good on you! You are firmly in a minority, however, and so I find the demonisation (not that you're doing this per se) of the small number of those who hunt for pleasure, on the grounds that it is unnecessary, rather naïve. The number of people who use animals for purposes that aren't essential is actually massive. Not that this detracts from the impressiveness of your asceticism.
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    (Original post by tjf8)
    Good on you! You are firmly in a minority, however, and so I find the demonisation (not that you're doing this per se) of the small number of those who hunt for pleasure, on the grounds that it is unnecessary, rather naïve. The number of people who use animals for purposes that aren't essential is actually massive. Not that this detracts from the impressiveness of your asceticism.
    Thank you, though I'm not sure asceticism is quite how I'd describe it. I agree with what you said - however, I assure you that I disapprove of any practice which involves the killing or harming of animals for unnecessary purposes.
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    (Original post by tjf8)
    Good on you! You are firmly in a minority, however, and so I find the demonisation (not that you're doing this per se) of the small number of those who hunt for pleasure, on the grounds that it is unnecessary, rather naïve. The number of people who use animals for purposes that aren't essential is actually massive. Not that this detracts from the impressiveness of your asceticism.
    I don't understand your argument. The number of people who use animals for unnecessary purposes is irrelevant. We're specifically talking about a certain act so I fail to see how other uses render the argument against hunting 'naïve'. It's standalone.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    x
    I think hunting is one of those big grey areas. In my view it depends on the animal being hunted, the methods and what is done with the funds generated.

    If it is really regulated, only set number of animals are killed per year or the species is not at major risk, it's as painless as possible, and the revenue from the hunting goes into maintain the animal population, I don't really have a problem. I wouldn't do it for sport myself but I can't really complain as long as the industry fulfills that criteria.

    Plus in some parts of the world, a significant portion of conservation funding comes from hunting.

    I was working on a reserve in Africa that had an amazing 13 year old male lion. He was huge, still fathering cubs and for his age healthy.
    However, most male lions are dead by 10 as they get kicked out of their pride, he had two sons that were about to reach maturity and brutally he would have in all likelihood only lived another two years at most.

    A wealthy businessman was willing to pay five million dollars for the right to hunt him straight to the reserve. This reserve also looked after leopards, cheetahs, elephants, rhinos both black and white, TB free buffalo and many other endemic species.

    So the reserve could get five million dollars out of a lion that wouldn't have lived much longer anyway, they could then trade his sons to other reserves to get genetically distinct new lions. As cold as it seems, there was too much to gain to pass the offer up.

    So this sort of thing, I may support as conservationists don't get points for idealism, they get points for how much funding they get and what they with it.

    Something like fox hunting on the other hand, that was senselessly cruel, the lion atleast is assured a reasonably quick death as opposed to being ripped apart by dogs I did oppose. If a farmer is losing livestock and hunting the culprit is the best way to end it, fine he has a right to protect his livelihood but that wasn't what fox hunting was about.
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    First of all I'd like to say that if you ask for "your views" then you should expect mainly answers from the opposite of what you've proposed (at least at the start of a thread), and therefore you've effectively invited people to bash on your beliefs. You've not been very accepting of the fact that other people may have views that differ from yours sometimes dismissing them on dubious grounds. (the way you've used "evolution" and "natural" for example)

    Secondly as someone who eats meat and goes fishing (because I enjoy it, not because I need the food) it seems rather strange to me to enjoy the actual killing. I do not have a problem with hunting, even for sport. I also understand it can be exciting to stalk an animal and even shooting it, as with most things that are technically difficult it's nice to pull it off.

    However to then not use the animal you have killed is in my opinion a lack of respect, and the actual enjoyment of the kill and or suffering is something I think is quite sad. In my opinion any loss of life by itself is a sad thing. I also don't have a problem with posing with the animal as long as the grin is not due to having killed (again it seems rather strange to smile at a loss of life in my opinion) but rather due to the technical/physical challenges that have been overcome.

    (Original post by Cybele)
    I think anyone who eats meat should at least be prepared to kill an animal themselves, if only to justify/understand their diet better.
    Completely agree with this, people who go "ewwwww" when it comes up in conversation that the steak they're eating used to be alive annoy me.
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    (Original post by la95)
    Thank you, though I'm not sure asceticism is quite how I'd describe it. I agree with what you said - however, I assure you that I disapprove of any practice which involves the killing or harming of animals for unnecessary purposes.
    Well I'm glad to hear you don't pick and choose.

    (Original post by Where'sPerry?)
    I don't understand your argument. The number of people who use animals for unnecessary purposes is irrelevant. We're specifically talking about a certain act so I fail to see how other uses render the argument against hunting 'naïve'. It's standalone.
    People bandy the word "unnecessary" around with respect to hunting a lot, and I'm merely pointing out that there's a wider picture. What makes killing an animal for sport worse than killing it for leather?
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    I don't agree with it whatsoever. It's cruel and pointless. What bugs me about humans is that they seem to think animals are there for the taking. They don't believe that they have feelings. Anyone who has a pet will know that they get happy, excited, scared and sad just like us. It's really cowardly to inflict that pain onto an animal for your own fun and I find the pictures disgusting to be honest.
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    Cruel to be honest. Sorry, but I find the pictures disgusting. I genuinely cannot understand how anyone can get their kicks out of killing animals! Yes, I am a vegetarian. No, I don't wear leather or anything of the kind. I also agree with what mf2004 above just said- you asked for peoples' views, yet you instantly dismiss the opinions of those of us who find it wrong.
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    I think anyone who eats meat should at least be prepared to kill an animal themselves, if only to justify/understand their diet better. However, killing something purely because you get a kick out of it, doesn't sit right with me. Those photos of you grinning and bragging about your kill aren't particularly nice to look at. I don't think it's nice to actually enjoy killing something, and doing it for sport.
    I enjoy the kill because I enjoy the hunt and the challenge, from finding the tracks, following the trail, spotting the prey, managing to get to a close enough distance without scaring it off, knocking the arrow, lining the shot, hitting the target.

    Each of those things is a challenge and a test of various skills and ability's.
    I get the same kind of thrill, when I win a fight or rank in a TKD competition, or when I play a good game of Basketball, or when I score well in an Archery Tournament.(Yet to rank in the latter sadly )

    Hell even when I play a good game of French Tarot.

    The pride and the grin is nothing more than showing "Look at all these skills I pulled together, and look at what it achieved, a clean kill and a good hunt"
 
 
 
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