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    Mods: Fear not, this is not some thread about potential suicide or a plea for help.

    Hello all,

    The euthanasia debate got me thinking. Is suicide the ultimate loss of control or the ultimate display of control over your own life?

    I say this is reference to Hunter S Thompson for instance, who when his writing career / ability came to an end, took his own life. Is this understandable or does this display just how mad Thompson was?

    Would like to hear your opinions on this.

    Thanks.
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    One usually commits suicide because s/he has lost control over the things that make up his/her life. So I'll go for the first option.
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    (Original post by Cryl)
    One usually commits suicide because s/he has lost control over the things that make up his/her life. So I'll go for the first option.
    Do you not see the other side though? If you have lived all you wish to live, achieved all you wish to achieve and you decide to finish things, on your own terms, is that not the ultimate display of control?
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    Though in principle suicide is a statement of freedom over self, in practice it is a statement of having lost freedom everywhere else.
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    A display of how fundamental his career was in his life? So much he couldn't bear it afterwards?
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    (Original post by 321zero)
    Do you not see the other side though? If you have lived all you wish to live, achieved all you wish to achieve and you decide to finish things, on your own terms, is that not the ultimate display of control?
    Of course, but that would usually lead to boredom which would lead to you seeking more things to do. One usually commits suicide is because s/he is simply unhappy with his/her current life due to unbearable events. I understand boredom may lead to unhappiness, but I doubt it'd be the cause of suicide.

    Bad grades, no friends, abuse at home - this can cause suicide.
    Great grades, lots of friends, yet boring and repetitive life - mhmm, probably would not cause suicide.
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    (Original post by Cryl)
    Of course, but that would usually lead to boredom which would lead to you seeking more things to do. One usually commits suicide is because s/he is simply unhappy with his/her current life due to unbearable events. I understand boredom may lead to unhappiness, but I doubt it'd be the cause of suicide.

    Bad grades, no friends, abuse at home - this can cause suicide.
    Great grades, lots of friends, yet boring and repetitive life - mhmm, probably would not cause suicide.
    Hmmph, you're looking in the short term (appropriately as this is a student forum, I admit). I used Thompson as an example as he had come to the end of his life. I'm not talking about suicide for the sake of escaping pain, more in the thought of 'I've achieved all I wanted to and I'm ready'.

    Perhaps to think that is insanity though.

    Thanks for your input.
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    (Original post by 321zero)
    Hmmph, you're looking in the short term (appropriately as this is a student forum, I admit). I used Thompson as an example as he had come to the end of his life. I'm not talking about suicide for the sake of escaping pain, more in the thought of 'I've achieved all I wanted to and I'm ready'.

    Perhaps to think that is insanity though.

    Thanks for your input.
    It just doesn't seem realistic for one to commit suicide because they've achieved everything. If that is the reason one commits suicide then yeah, sure. It's display of control as you're choosing when to ultimately end your life after doing everything you wanted to.

    But we both that's not the most common reason for committing suicide. Realistically, in many cases, suicide demonstrates a loss of control.
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    (Original post by Cryl)
    It just doesn't seem realistic for one to commit suicide because they've achieved everything. If that is the reason one commits suicide then yeah, sure. It's display of control as you're choosing when to ultimately end your life after doing everything you wanted to.

    But we both that's not the most common reason for committing suicide. Realistically, in many cases, suicide demonstrates a loss of control.
    Yeah, I agree, I believe most people will do it out of a loss of control. I was just interested if others could see the 'logic' (for want of a better word) of Hunter S Thompson's and Hemingway's suicide.

    Hem is an example of mental illness though, so may be that is a bad example.
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    (Original post by miser)
    Though in principle suicide is a statement of freedom over self, in practice it is a statement of having lost freedom everywhere else.
    So in practice, you do not believe an individual coming to the end of their own life would commit suicide for any other reason than to escape from the negative aspects of their life? That they cannot die as they believe the time is right in a sane and positive decision?
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    Bad example, you're implying that Thompson took his life because his career was floundering. By most accounts, it was because of poor health that left him crippled. It was more a conscious decision to end his life because he could not live it the way he wanted as opposed to ending it because he felt he had no control over his life.

    In answer to your question, I think it can work either way.
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    When I tried it was because I couldn't see any other option and interestingly there was nothing wrong with my grades, I was achieving firsts and I wasn't bullied either. I was just desperately unhappy and I didn't see myself enjoying anything. I didn't feel loved or capable of being in a loving relationship - I had/have clinical depression for three years and I was sick of fighting. I saw it as no different to euthanasia; you wouldn't make a animal suffer when it was in pain so why should I be any different.

    That was my reasoning anyway. Alas the meaningless fight goes on.

    Also I am NOT saying these are good reasons to do such an act there just comes a point when someone no longer desires to live as a form of damage limitation.
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    I cant see how it would be displaying ultimate control i mean he was going to die anyway
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    (Original post by 321zero)
    So in practice, you do not believe an individual coming to the end of their own life would commit suicide for any other reason than to escape from the negative aspects of their life? That they cannot die as they believe the time is right in a sane and positive decision?
    I would like to believe it - and I did used to. I'm a big supporter of the right to commit suicide. It might be true in the exceptional instance, but the unfortunate evidence is that the people who commit suicide generally do so as a measure of last resort; they do it because they feel trapped.

    I have never heard of a happy person committing suicide.
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    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    Bad example, you're implying that Thompson took his life because his career was floundering. By most accounts, it was because of poor health that left him crippled. It was more a conscious decision to end his life because he could not live it the way he wanted as opposed to ending it because he felt he had no control over his life.

    In answer to your question, I think it can work either way.
    I've definitely read that losing his ability to write fluidly was a factor.
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    (Original post by Cryl)
    One usually commits suicide because s/he has lost control over the things that make up his/her life. So I'll go for the first option.
    (Original post by Cryl)
    Of course, but that would usually lead to boredom which would lead to you seeking more things to do. One usually commits suicide is because s/he is simply unhappy with his/her current life due to unbearable events. I understand boredom may lead to unhappiness, but I doubt it'd be the cause of suicide.

    Bad grades, no friends, abuse at home - this can cause suicide.
    Great grades, lots of friends, yet boring and repetitive life - mhmm, probably would not cause suicide.

    This.
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    It's control and its loss of control at the same time.

    I always say life is 10% what others choose to do and the other 90% is what you do as a reaction to the 10%. For example (this is a very simple one) a teacher gives you homework (that is the 10%) and you can either accept it, do it that evening and forget about it or kick up a huge fuss but in the end landing yourself with more homework and a detention (that is the 90%) but when that control you have starts to slowly go, it may be because of serious bullying, a disease like cancer or a death in the family you feel helpless because what decisions and free will you had is going by an unstoppable force and you can do nothing about it.

    So it builds up and builds up until 100% of your life is bent controlled by others instead of by YOU! So because of the loss of control suicide becomes the only form of control left. Only you can do that to yourself and its the only thing people will understand so they can begin to see the depth of your suffering.


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    As others have said, it's about control and about loss of control.

    A lot of people will kill themselves as they feel they have no control whatsoever and the cons outweigh the pro's and yes, their last action on this earth is one that can be controlled by them, suicide. On the other hand, you'll get people who commit suicide purely because they want to die on their own terms, isn't that the reasoning behind Hunter S Thompson s? I was under the impression he had planned it for years when he felt life was no longer living.

    I've been thinking about the concept of suicide lately and I came to the conclusion I would consider suicide when my quality of life dropped to below a certain point, after all I would rather choose when I died then spend my last years being cared for in a home eating mushy food and having my arse wiped for me, but then again by the time I got to that point I would probably be incapable of killing myself.
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    I don't think Thompson was mad. What animal other than the human would consider taking its own life? It shows the extent to which we have removed ourselves from the usual cycle of nature and the usual urges and instincts of creatures. That and contraception – they are (in a way) demonstrations of the extent to which we control our own fates, not other forces. In a sense then killing yourself is a pretty powerful thing.
 
 
 
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