Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Hmmm well, why do you think military is targeted as a man's job? Is it because women are weak and helpless? No, it's because men are more disposable than women are in terms of reproduction, the same reason that violence against women is seen as more abhorrent than violence against men is because men's role in reproduction is only 20 minutes whereas a woman's role is nine months and if you hit a pregnant woman the baby could die, so what they do is send men to do it, women are pretty much as capable at hunting as men are, but they didn't do it because women were needed to reproduce, also libido is slightly higher in men than women, that's due to reproduction roles again men want to spread their genes whereas women want the best mate to make their offspring with, and the reason why women have a higher bodyfat% than men and lower amounts of musclemass is because muscles use a lot of energy that they need to not be using whilst pregnant. These are decided by biology really.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yes, yes I do agree that structural, physical differences have evolved for pregnancy and this biological difference is body fat, ovaries, womb etc.

    However on the behavioral side, in particular with libido, I think is not biologically different.

    Firstly, evidence we have is highly inconclusive due to sample sizes and the great difficulty in removing cultural and nurtured influence.

    However the argument for higher sex drive in men being caused by the need to spread genes can be countered if we look at human sexuality from a different angle.

    As you know, humans, Bonobos and dolphins all express sexual behavior outside of breeding season. This is rather interesting as we see sexuality meaning more than just reproduction and gene spreading, but for socialising, relieving stress, bonding and many other reasons.
    We also see a lot of homosexual behavior in these species too for this same reason, as it is not all about producing offspring.
    This alongside the anatomy of female genitalia where the clitoris (the major pleasure area with the highest amount of nerve endings) is situated away from the vagina to enable pleasure without penetration (pregnancy). In actual fact being, for most women, the only things really needed to orgasm.

    This makes having more libido in men perhaps not evolutionary advantageous, and equal between the sexes.

    Humans are pretty cool
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    Yes, yes I do agree that structural, physical differences have evolved for pregnancy and this biological difference is body fat, ovaries, womb etc.
    Yes exactly.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    However on the behavioral side, in particular with libido, I think is not biologically different.
    You could actually be quite right to say the libido quite possibly be due to women and men having disturbingly prejudiced views infringed upon them about sex by christianity and various other religious affiliations, women get told not to be "easy" (sorry for saying it quite so crudely) for appearing to be relationship material, and men want to have sex with her as quickly as possible but get told if she sleeps with him too quickly, she is not relationship material by his parents/ society. Although I'd see it possible the libido could be at similar levels, the behavior behind it, but due to my opinion, I'd argue are not the same.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    Firstly, evidence we have is highly inconclusive due to sample sizes and the great difficulty in removing cultural and nurtured influence.
    That isn't an easy task culturally to do that someone would have to remove quite a lot of prejudice from the stigma of appearing "easy" sexually (it should be called just enjoying themselves). Which is half the reason I've grown to dislike religion it shows me a lot about history and it's bigoted views. I believe the reason why, is because women fear appearing "slutty" as society tells them doing this is "bad" they don't do as to avoid being judged.


    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    However the argument for higher sex drive in men being caused by the need to spread genes can be countered if we look at human sexuality from a different angle.

    As you know, humans, Bonobos and dolphins all express sexual behavior outside of breeding season. This is rather interesting as we see sexuality meaning more than just reproduction and gene spreading, but for socialising, relieving stress, bonding and many other reasons.
    Yes, that's true, bonobos are very very promiscuous compared to humans, :/ it seems like a giant sex buffet for them throughout life. I think you do have a point there, it does seem as if religious views have dictated this.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    We also see a lot of homosexual behavior in these species too for this same reason, as it is not all about producing offspring.
    This alongside the anatomy of female genitalia where the clitoris (the major pleasure area with the highest amount of nerve endings) is situated away from the vagina to enable pleasure without penetration (pregnancy). In actual fact being, for most women, the only things really needed to orgasm.
    You also forgot the prostate although women do enjoy penetrative sex, right?:confused: And also you forget about anal/oral, both which women do enjoy if the man(or occasionally a lesbian) is going slowly with good lubrication.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    This makes having more libido in men perhaps not evolutionary advantageous, and equal between the sexes.
    You might have a point here, but how is it advantageous for men to want sex more than women?

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    Humans are pretty cool
    Yes, we are


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jreid1994)
    You could actually be quite right to say the libido quite possibly be due to women and men having disturbingly prejudiced views infringed upon them about sex by christianity and various other religious affiliations, women get told not to be "easy" (sorry for saying it quite so crudely) for appearing to be relationship material, and men want to have sex with her as quickly as possible but get told if she sleeps with him too quickly, she is not relationship material by his parents/ society. Although I'd see it possible the libido could be at similar levels, the behavior behind it, but due to my opinion, I'd argue are not the same.
    So why would you argue they are not the same?
    Yes, however even without Christianity being so strong in society as it was, the ideas and pressures have now been interwoven with our culture.

    (Original post by jreid1994)
    That isn't an easy task culturally to do that someone would have to remove quite a lot of prejudice from the stigma of appearing "easy" sexually (it should be called just enjoying themselves). Which is half the reason I've grown to dislike religion it shows me a lot about history and it's bigoted views. I believe the reason why, is because women fear appearing "slutty" as society tells them doing this is "bad" they don't do as to avoid being judged.
    I can imagine though the intention of these ideas did have some good roots. Like religion always does, just perhaps some bad consequences sometimes.
    They might have seen too many children being made to feed, too much sexually transmitted disease. Thus sex after marriage is a good way at controlling it.

    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Yes, that's true, bonobos are very very promiscuous compared to humans, :/ it seems like a giant sex buffet for them throughout life. I think you do have a point there, it does seem as if religious views have dictated this.
    I just wanted to highlight that even though it may seem logical that men have evolved a higher libido for reproductive reasoning and for his role without a womb, due to how humans use sex for pleasure and for much more than just to produce offspring that it would be a biological disadvantage for libido to be unequal between men and women.

    (Original post by jreid1994)
    You also forgot the prostate although women do enjoy penetrative sex, right?:confused: And also you forget about anal/oral, both which women do enjoy if the man(or occasionally a lesbian) is going slowly with good lubrication.
    yes women do enjoy penetrative sex but on its own without any simulation of the clitoris is nothing.
    So yes, this evolved anatomy of women can also show how we are evolved to use sexual pleasure without reproduction, therefore not fully needing to have unequal libido.

    (Original post by jreid1994)
    You might have a point here, but how is it advantageous for men to want sex more than women?
    It isn't.
    Due to human having sex outside of a 'mating' season, using it for pleasure, stress reliever etc and having female anatomy made to allow pleasure without penetration.
    This means that even though men want to 'spread genes and women want the best mate' this can be disregarded when it comes to libido as women and men need to have the same libido to aid them socially, emotionally and for bonding.

    Just want to add that this use of sexuality is found in these select creature (Bonobos, Dolphins, Humans) which are also very, very intelligent creature.
    This is why I think it is important to use this evolved trait and not perpetuate this cultural idea that men and women have differing libido.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    So why would you argue they are not the same?
    Yes, however even without Christianity being so strong in society as it was, the ideas and pressures have now been interwoven with our culture.
    I would argue the behavior behind libido isn't the same, because men and women process sexual behavior differently. Although it doesn't mean that women can't enjoy sex or want sex as much as men.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    I can imagine though the intention of these ideas did have some good roots. Like religion always does, just perhaps some bad consequences sometimes.
    They might have seen too many children being made to feed, too much sexually transmitted disease. Thus sex after marriage is a good way at controlling it.
    Not really religion hasn't really got good intentions it was written by the rich men of the olden times the laws in the bible were very harsh to the common, to suppress the poorer men, women, homosexuals, slaves... The bible's teachings are bad and irrelevant to modern society, the only redeemable feature of the bible was the monogamous values and common law.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    I just wanted to highlight that even though it may seem logical that men have evolved a higher libido for reproductive reasoning and for his role without a womb, due to how humans use sex for pleasure and for much more than just to produce offspring that it would be a biological disadvantage for libido to be unequal between men and women.
    Yeah that's a good point, and that's something that contraception and liberal views on sexuality and sex(oral, ect...) Also another thing that's also unusual is once most women start to reach their 30s their libido starts to increase a lot. Which suggests that women's libido isn't due to procreation as the health risks if procreation increase at this age aswell.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    yes women do enjoy penetrative sex but on its own without any simulation of the clitoris is nothing.
    So yes, this evolved anatomy of women can also show how we are evolved to use sexual pleasure without reproduction, therefore not fully needing to have unequal libido.
    Oh, that's good then I was thinking for a minute that you was suggesting that you didn't, and yes clitoral stimulation is important to women. I am starting to see what you are saying.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    It isn't.
    Due to human having sex outside of a 'mating' season, using it for pleasure, stress reliever etc and having female anatomy made to allow pleasure without penetration.
    This means that even though men want to 'spread genes and women want the best mate' this can be disregarded when it comes to libido as women and men need to have the same libido to aid them socially, emotionally and for bonding.
    Yeah, I don't think that is completely true now I come to think about it, as men and women feel anger when their partner cheats and feel guilty when they cheat. And also as to how sexually attractive someone is depends on the person, so I'm starting to see where it is you are coming from.

    (Original post by LittleMissNoface)
    Just want to add that this use of sexuality is found in these select creature (Bonobos, Dolphins, Humans) which are also very, very intelligent creature.
    This is why I think it is important to use this evolved trait and not perpetuate this cultural idea that men and women have differing libido.
    They are the only creatures where homosexuality is what I'd call genuine, as they enjoy sex for pleasure. And all of those creatures are high in intelligence so have got a good point.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
Poll
If you won £30,000, which of these would you spend it on?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.