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    Does nobody get put off the army by the crap you have to deal with. Constant, unnecessary shouting from someone with a stupid hat; having to change the way you stand when certain people come into a room, basically being treated like crap until you get reach a decent rank.

    Or do I just have a very bad interpretation on how it works?


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    These things are done for a reason. Discipline, teamwork, routine etc are instilled for a reason.

    I would think that is obvious.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    These things are done for a reason. Discipline, teamwork, routine etc are instilled for a reason.

    I would think that is obvious.
    By shouting at these poor people and treating the like rubbish? Surely there has to be better ways of fostering those attributes than that.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    These things are done for a reason. Discipline, teamwork, routine etc are instilled for a reason.

    I would think that is obvious.
    There's scientific evidence that people respond better to praise than criticism, wouldn't people respond better to being treated well rather constant shouting


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    (Original post by Mechie)
    By shouting at these poor people and treating the like rubbish? Surely there has to be better ways of fostering those attributes than that.

    (Original post by LewisG123)
    There's scientific evidence that people respond better to praise than criticism, wouldn't people respond better to being treated well rather constant shouting


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    Poor people? They're not conscripts.

    Look. These people are training to go to situations where they will have to do things you cannot fathom, where their life and death, and that of everyone around them rests on their shoulders. The reason the discipline is so harsh is so that in a combat area, when they are given an order, they will obey it. When they panic, their training kicks in. They know everyone around them knows the same, they know they are part of a team. There is no discussion where there need not be one, there is a command structure.

    If there were a better way, do you not think we would be using it? There have been various attempts at a 'nice' army around the world over the years, they do not work. When a stock-boy does a bad job and mugs his boss off, the shelves don't get stocked. If a squaddie does that? It could mean the death of his entire squad.
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    (Original post by Mechie)
    By shouting at these poor people and treating the like rubbish? Surely there has to be better ways of fostering those attributes than that.
    lol. who did you vote for last general election?
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    Isn't the army for people that can't think for themselves?

    I personally couldn't be in a place where people have a significant authority over me, those people get treated and shouted at like dogs
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Poor people? They're not conscripts.

    Look. These people are training to go to situations where they will have to do things you cannot fathom, where their life and death, and that of everyone around them rests on their shoulders. The reason the discipline is so harsh is so that in a combat area, when they are given an order, they will obey it. When they panic, their training kicks in. They know everyone around them knows the same, they know they are part of a team. There is no discussion where there need not be one, there is a command structure.

    If there were a better way, do you not think we would be using it? There have been various attempts at a 'nice' army around the world over the years, they do not work. When a stock-boy does a bad job and mugs his boss off, the shelves don't get stocked. If a squaddie does that? It could mean the death of his entire squad.
    They're training could kick in without constant shouting. I don't disagree with the idea of a command structure, pretty much every group in society has one but most don't enforce it with stupid outdated rules like changing your posture when someone comes into a room, what does anyone gain from that.

    Well there are a lot of things that could be done better that aren't done better. I don't agree that the army has tried to be nice, I've never heard of that happening. What evidence is there that constantly shouting at someone means they're less likely to mug off their boss? Personally it would make me more likely because I'd get annoyed by it. Also I think most people would understand the necessity of doing as they're told in a life or death situation, it's a lot different to stacking shelves


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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Poor people? They're not conscripts.

    Look. These people are training to go to situations where they will have to do things you cannot fathom, where their life and death, and that of everyone around them rests on their shoulders. The reason the discipline is so harsh is so that in a combat area, when they are given an order, they will obey it. When they panic, their training kicks in. They know everyone around them knows the same, they know they are part of a team. There is no discussion where there need not be one, there is a command structure.

    If there were a better way, do you not think we would be using it? There have been various attempts at a 'nice' army around the world over the years, they do not work. When a stock-boy does a bad job and mugs his boss off, the shelves don't get stocked. If a squaddie does that? It could mean the death of his entire squad.
    It doesn't matter that they're not conscripts - they're still entitled to their basic dignity and standard of care when they join the army. Many people who join the army - especially the infantry - do it because they feel they don't have much else, and the army is an attractive job prospect for them - a reputable employer if they want a job in future, a wage etc. They still deserve a level of respect from everyone, and that includes their superior officers.

    You can have discipline without treating people like ****, you have to make people want to do what their superior officer says, rather than it just being a case of them have to. There can be an effective command structure without treating people like crap.

    What "nice" armies have there been that have failed? Just because we've always used one way doesn't mean it's the best way.

    (Original post by iamgreatness)
    lol. who did you vote for last general election?
    I fail to see how that's relevant at all, and at any rate I wasn't eligible to vote at the last general election.
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    (Original post by Mechie)
    It doesn't matter that they're not conscripts - they're still entitled to their basic dignity and standard of care when they join the army. Many people who join the army - especially the infantry - do it because they feel they don't have much else, and the army is an attractive job prospect for them - a reputable employer if they want a job in future, a wage etc. They still deserve a level of respect from everyone, and that includes their superior officers.

    You can have discipline without treating people like ****, you have to make people want to do what their superior officer says, rather than it just being a case of them have to. There can be an effective command structure without treating people like crap.

    What "nice" armies have there been that have failed? Just because we've always used one way doesn't mean it's the best way.



    I fail to see how that's relevant at all, and at any rate I wasn't eligible to vote at the last general election.
    Because you are spouting typical left wing twaddle
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    What absolute rubbish. I think you're basing your knowledge of the army on one too many Hollywood films.

    The army is not constant shouting and being treated like rubbish; once you're out of training many work environments are perfectly normal.
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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Does nobody get put off the army by the crap you have to deal with. Constant, unnecessary shouting from someone with a stupid hat; having to change the way you stand when certain people come into a room, basically being treated like crap until you get reach a decent rank.

    Or do I just have a very bad interpretation on how it works?


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    That isn't the way the army works unless your idea of the army is Lad's Army.
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    (Original post by Tommmo)
    What absolute rubbish. I think you're basing your knowledge of the army on one too many Hollywood films.

    The army is not constant shouting and being treated like rubbish; once you're out of training many work environments are perfectly normal.
    This.

    Bear in mind that it is necessary in military training to be put under a lot of pressure - if you can't hack it much better to find out when training than when it really matters. Being on the receiving end of a lot of grief isn't much fun at the time but it tends to be effective. The military spend a lot of time, money and effort training and have spent a lot of time making sure they're training effectively. If all praise was the best way of training that's what would happen, but it's not (at least in this situation).
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    They are going to spent their career dodging bullets and avoiding IED's, a bit of shouting is the least of their worries.
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    (Original post by CoolStoryBroo)
    Isn't the army for people that can't think for themselves?

    I personally couldn't be in a place where people have a significant authority over me, those people get treated and shouted at like dogs
    I wouldn't worry about that. You would not be wanted, nor would you be able to hack it anyway.

    Don't like it? **** off.


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    You've been watching too much Bad Lad's Army. As a caricature of what goes on, fine, have it, but as a day to day guide on military life? About as misguided as you can get.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    You've been watching too much Bad Lad's Army. As a caricature of what goes on, fine, have it, but as a day to day guide on military life? About as misguided as you can get.
    I agree.

    It's little crap necks like this guy that have no respect for anyone, or anything. Never been in the Forces and never will but proclaims to have the knowledge to come on a widely-used forum and talk utter rubbish.

    OP; all I will say is this. Grow up.


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    (Original post by LewisG123)
    Does nobody get put off the army by the crap you have to deal with.

    Or do I just have a very bad interpretation on how it works?
    But, OP, to answer your questions;

    - yes, but it's their own fault because they haven't learnt better.
    - yes, that too.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    But, OP, to answer your questions;

    - yes, but it's their own fault because they haven't learnt better.
    - yes, that too.
    They haven't learnt to deal with crap? I don't think people should have to learn that


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    (Original post by Lee R)
    I agree.

    It's little crap necks like this guy that have no respect for anyone, or anything. Never been in the Forces and never will but proclaims to have the knowledge to come on a widely-used forum and talk utter rubbish.

    OP; all I will say is this. Grow up.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    Very presumptuous


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