Join TSR now for chat about life, relationships, fashion and more…Sign up now

Girls: I think you expect too much. Watch

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Ultimately yes both sexes priorities are generally screwed and you can possibly blame not being adored and lusted after on Americanisation and media influence but the bottom line is that if you really like someone then the impetus is on you to show them that you are worth being with, not on them to realise that - and that goes for both guys and girls.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Jesus wept. ITT people complaining that other people have personal standards for what they deem attractive. I'm seeing alot of 'boohoo I love her but she doesn't love me but she would love me if society didn't push expectations of awesome men who don't exist on her'.

    Well get a load of this pop tarts, there are fantastic men and fantastic women out there who DO end up finding that special someone who meet their same standards, infact, the vast majority of people do. You can either sit about and mope about how life is not fair and how you aren't attractive enough, or bloody drop the cheetos, shave that neckbeard off and go for a run/get in shape.

    I have to laugh at some of the outright anti-feminist rhetoric going on in here too. So Women have been allowed to show they have a backbone huh? Cor, life must be so hard now that you can't oppress people eh? Its like the school bully whining that he is not allowed to punch people anymore. Pathetic.

    NB : Also, women aren't defined by men, they don't root the core of their existence around men, they don't have any obligation to love yours or anybody elses sorry ass. Vice versa for men.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Transformational)
    Jesus wept. ITT people complaining that other people have personal standards for what they deem attractive. I'm seeing alot of 'boohoo I love her but she doesn't love me but she would love me if society didn't push expectations of awesome men who don't exist on her'.

    Well get a load of this pop tarts, there are fantastic men and fantastic women out there who DO end up finding that special someone who meet their same standards, infact, the vast majority of people do. You can either sit about and mope about how life is not fair and how you aren't attractive enough, or bloody drop the cheetos, shave that neckbeard off and go for a run/get in shape.

    I have to laugh at some of the outright anti-feminist rhetoric going on in here too. So Women have been allowed to show they have a backbone huh? Cor, life must be so hard now that you can't oppress people eh? Its like the school bully whining that he is not allowed to punch people anymore. Pathetic.

    NB : Also, women aren't defined by men, they don't root the core of their existence around men, they don't have any obligation to love yours or anybody elses sorry ass. Vice versa for men.

    Well of course you're allowed to be feminist as long as your measurements at 36-24-36. What's that ? Equality works both ways ? Haha - not having that thank you very much !
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delbyo69)
    Well of course you're allowed to be feminist as long as your measurements at 36-24-36. What's that ? Equality works both ways ? Haha - not having that thank you very much !
    You're 'allowed' to be feminist regardless of what size, colour, creed, whatever; why are you trying to assign a physical categorisation to what is a movement based purely on socially constructed gender roles?

    Whining about people not loving you because you aren't what they deem to be attractive is not a problem rooted in the person making the judgement nor necessarily rooted in the sources of the judgements. Humans beings are biologically hardwired to judge sexual partners, all this thread is is where people are moping that they can't meet the set of standards that has long been established throughout the course of all life namely, evolutionary psychology.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Transformational)
    You're 'allowed' to be feminist regardless of what size, colour, creed, whatever; why are you trying to assign a physical categorisation to what is a movement based purely on socially constructed gender roles?

    Whining about people not loving you because you aren't what they deem to be attractive is not a problem rooted in the person making the judgement nor necessarily rooted in the sources of the judgements. Humans beings are biologically hardwired to judge sexual partners, all this thread is is where people are moping that they can't meet the set of standards that has long been established throughout the course of all life namely, evolutionary psychology.

    You are allowed to be feminist as long as you aren't ugly. Ugly people don't attract attractive partners and the reason for this is laid out in your argument above. Obviously ugly people do attract different partners which basically blows your argument out of the water, but what I think you are trying to say in a primitive way is that 'sexy burds' will attract a 'sexy man'. What they fail to understand is that, that 'sexy man' is useful for looking in a mirror and that's about it. When it comes to doing anything that requires more effort than hair gel you will probably find this man lacking in substance. I can build a house with my bare hands and make my partner scream. What can your man do apart from spend your allowance and make you whimper in disappointment.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delbyo69)
    You are allowed to be feminist as long as you aren't ugly. Ugly people don't attract attractive partners and the reason for this is laid out in your argument above. Obviously ugly people do attract different partners which basically blows your argument out of the water, but what I think you are trying to say in a primitive way is that 'sexy burds' will attract a 'sexy man'. What they fail to understand is that, that 'sexy man' is useful for looking in a mirror and that's about it. When it comes to doing anything that requires more effort than hair gel you will probably find this man lacking in substance. I can build a house with my bare hands and make my partner scream. What can your man do apart from spend your allowance and make you whimper in disappointment.
    Evolutionary psychology dictates women are consciously or unconsciously attracted to men who present the best genetic potential for their child whilst simultaneously accounting for their own ranking or 'league' as it were. This includes physical things such as a strong jaw, large muscles which convey strength etc. Because the evolution of humans has lead to our intelligence becoming a very important factor in our survival, it is also reasonable to assume that it also forms a very important part of the attraction. Finally, and most significant in recent times, money has come to play a huge part in attraction. It represents the ability to provide better than any of the other traits here and so it is a big lure for many.

    Statistically people who have relationships are usually very close when it comes to the sum total of their traits, there are a few outliers but they are but exceptions to a rule, we all intuitively know this. We can also explain these outliers with our model by stating that the compensatory mechanism in one or more of the parties is skewed in some fashion, namely self esteem issues, socialisation, etcetera.

    Finally, your.. Well I'm not sure what it was, some kind of Tu Quoque? Its not even really an argument, its just a statement with absolutely no relevance and you should feel bad for writing it.

    My girlfriend is the closest person to me in my life, and I do many things for her. She does many things for me.
    We will do things for each other in the bedroom.
    I'll wear a suit and go have a meal for her, she'll come cheer me as I play Rugby.
    We love to do things for each other, as every couple should. Its called a relationship, it is not skewed in favour of one person or another.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Transformational)
    Evolutionary psychology dictates women are consciously or unconsciously attracted to men who present the best genetic potential for their child whilst simultaneously accounting for their own ranking or 'league' as it were. This includes physical things such as a strong jaw, large muscles which convey strength etc. Because the evolution of humans has lead to our intelligence becoming a very important factor in our survival, it is also reasonable to assume that it also forms a very important part of the attraction. Finally, and most significant in recent times, money has come to play a huge part in attraction. It represents the ability to provide better than any of the other traits here and so it is a big lure for many.

    Statistically people who have relationships are usually very close when it comes to the sum total of their traits, there are a few outliers but they are but exceptions to a rule, we all intuitively know this. We can also explain these outliers with our model by stating that the compensatory mechanism in one or more of the parties is skewed in some fashion, namely self esteem issues, socialisation, etcetera.

    Finally, your.. Well I'm not sure what it was, some kind of Tu Quoque? Its not even really an argument, its just a statement with absolutely no relevance and you should feel bad for writing it.

    My girlfriend is the closest person to me in my life, and I do many things for her. She does many things for me.
    We will do things for each other in the bedroom.
    I'll wear a suit and go have a meal for her, she'll come cheer me as I play Rugby.
    We love to do things for each other, as every couple should. Its called a relationship, it is not skewed in favour of one person or another.
    It is demonstrable from your frankly biased monologue, that you are clearly biased in favour of human evolution revolving primarily around physical prowess. Whilst it is pertinent in terms of a westernised pseudo-scientific context, it is patently not a necessary prerequisite for the upbringing of a healthy progeny nor is it necessarily the most effective method for intellectual and spiritual evolution of humanity.

    Furthermore, it is not even necessary, particularly in the context of our contemporary socio-cultural condition for men to exert their 'physical dominance' upon their peers. But no doubt, in Rugby playing circles it's the norm to demonstrate one's physical 'dominance' in the form of punching inanimate objects whilst drinking each others piss.

    Nonetheless, socio-cultural influence does play an important role in influencing our 'development' as a race. You made some quite bold assumptions, typical of the dogmatic rhetoric of western science. I have a host of qualities that you simply do not possess, and I will attract a different type of woman to yourself. It does not mean I am moaning about my own personal situation, I'm simply questioning the dominance of certain socio-cultural norms which seem both moronic and superficial.

    By the way, the fact that you sometimes wear a suit is astoundingly impressive.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    [QUOTE=Transformational;41999668]Evolutionary psychology dictates women are consciously or unconsciously attracted to men who present the best genetic potential for their child whilst simultaneously accounting for their own ranking or 'league' as it were. This includes physical things such as a strong jaw, large muscles which convey strength etc. Because the evolution of humans has lead to our intelligence becoming a very important factor in our survival, it is also reasonable to assume that it also forms a very important part of the attraction. Finally, and most significant in recent times, money has come to play a huge part in attraction. It represents the ability to provide better than any of the other traits here and so it is a big lure for many.

    Statistically people who have relationships are usually very close when it comes to the sum total of their traits, there are a few outliers but they are but exceptions to a rule, we all intuitively know this. We can also explain these outliers with our model by stating that the compensatory mechanism in one or more of the parties is skewed in some fashion, namely self esteem issues, socialisation, etcetera.

    Finally, your.. Well I'm not sure what it was, some kind of Tu Quoque? Its not even really an argument, its just a statement with absolutely no relevance and you should feel bad for writing it.

    Your argument is sound. But unfortunately, what every craves is the love and protection of a man. This might sound a bit basic and raw but every woman while standing firm for herself, craves the support and spine of a man. To deny this is denying being feminine. It is pretty simple to understand that women are here for a reason and so are men. The problem is accepting that youre place is one of those reasons and a mans place is another. I fail to understand how a women, equal in regard they are to, could compare themselves in such a way as to think them physically equal. This is simply not true.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tommyjazzhands)
    It is demonstrable from your frankly biased monologue, that you are clearly biased in favour of human evolution revolving primarily around physical prowess. Whilst it is pertinent in terms of a westernised pseudo-scientific context, it is patently not a necessary prerequisite for the upbringing of a healthy progeny nor is it necessarily the most effective method for intellectual and spiritual evolution of humanity.

    Furthermore, it is not even necessary, particularly in the context of our contemporary socio-cultural condition for men to exert their 'physical dominance' upon their peers. But no doubt, in Rugby playing circles it's the norm to demonstrate one's physical 'dominance' in the form of punching inanimate objects whilst drinking each others piss.

    Nonetheless, socio-cultural influence does play an important role in influencing our 'development' as a race. You made some quite bold assumptions, typical of the dogmatic rhetoric of western science. I have a host of qualities that you simply do not possess, and I will attract a different type of woman to yourself. It does not mean I am moaning about my own personal situation, I'm simply questioning the dominance of certain socio-cultural norms which seem both moronic and superficial.

    By the way, the fact that you sometimes wear a suit is astoundingly impressive.
    You've extrapolated the fact I play Rugby (Drinking piss what?) into some kind of assertion of dominance. Eh, no, I play Rugby because I really enjoy it. Thats a complete derail and I don't know why you brought it up. I personally place a premium on intelligence, not physicality.

    Physical prowess WAS the most important thing in our evolutionary history, currently it seems to be found in a far more fluid concept of utility. IE, intelligence, money, confidence and happiness derived therein.

    Regarding the 'assumptions of western science', could you speak in plainer English? Pretty much every single piece of abstract and scientific piece of reasoning can be traced back to atleast some form of assumption, namely the assumed uniformity of physics and the principles of Euclidean geometry. There is tonnes of research for you to look through on the matter in Biology, Psychology and Sociology, and if you aren't willing to atleast attempt to counter the arguments presented by peer review, then your argument is not sound and therefore false. To criticise the assumptions that underlie science is to open up an entirely new debate, and one that I could quite capably square you into where everything must be an assumption for nothing can exist otherwise. Its irrelevant. Also describing science as 'dogma' and 'rhetoric'; please attempt to learn what words mean before you use them, that there computer you are typing on is a physical product of that 'rhetoric'.

    Of course socio-cultural influence plays an important part in deciding what is attractive, though is still conforms to a definite form of positivism. Fat people will not ever be as broadly aesthetically appealing as fit people, but subconsciously some people who find themselves in a similar 'league' if you will accept that and then adjust their biases so that they find it attractive. There was a really good study and a video on it and I can't for the life of me remember where to find it, but I'll link it here if I do.

    As for the standards you deem 'superficial'. What you're expressing their is an opinion, something which anybody else can also dismiss as nothing but 'superficial'. You're questioning a fact without reason, rather just throwing an opinion up against it and thinking that somehow strengthens your position. There is no distinction between a superficial standard and a non superficial standard, they are simply standards held by people. So yes, if you want to attract a girl who places value on the traits of speed, strength, intelligence, whatever, you will have to get faster, stronger, smarter; you are in no position to say 'I think you should just lower your standards for me because I don't want to do those things/those standards come from societies influence (NEWSFLASH, most of our entire personalities come from societal influence)'. Weirdly, I find the people who possess the best of these traits do so without any motivation for attraction, but rather simply for the sense of self satisfaction.

    Additionally and as an aside, Why do you care if girls like guys with big biceps? Why do you care if a guy likes a girl for her looks? If there is a mutual agreement between the two of them then surely it is not for you to become sanctimonious and judge? You have no moral imperative.
    EDIT : Though clearly you are quite obsessive about what standards you are judged by. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...448&highlight=


    Finally, and I'm curious, what would you change? I'm interested to see what your ideal scenario is.


    NB : I don't like wearing suits, but I wear them on occasion for her because it makes her happy and that makes me happy. I don't expect her to do things she otherwise wouldn't do for for me without me returning in kind.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delbyo69)
    Your argument is sound. But unfortunately, what every craves is the love and protection of a man. This might sound a bit basic and raw but every woman while standing firm for herself, craves the support and spine of a man. To deny this is denying being feminine. It is pretty simple to understand that women are here for a reason and so are men. The problem is accepting that youre place is one of those reasons and a mans place is another. I fail to understand how a women, equal in regard they are to, could compare themselves in such a way as to think them physically equal. This is simply not true.
    So your argument essentially boils down to; 'Your argument is valid and true and therefore sound' but somehow its also false and I'm right and you're wrong because I'm just right? (A tautology).

    We are talking about GENDER roles here and not sexual ones. We can easily demonstrate how loose biological imperative is by simply looking at things like homosexual relationships or transpeople. Gender roles are not inconquerable blocks of granite through which you attempt to oppress others, they are almost entirely based upon cultural standards.

    Hell, you only need to look at the non heteronormative cultures of the Spartans or the ancient greeks to see that this is a moot point on your part.

    The ultimate goal of equality is to eliminate the stereotypes of gender which you so feverishly cling onto, women are not inherently feminine and men are not inherently masculine, and the sooner society accepts the better.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by holmes221)
    Well its a number of videos on youtube by this life coach but because it teaches other things (legal) not for the mainstream and it will seems like im trying to sell it with it I won't paste a link here.
    So what? Post it here so your young brethren can learn from it and grow.

    In other words, you've learnt how to redefine and interpret particular concepts and ideas to those that benefit you than work against you. Such as success, failure, rejection etc etc.

    That's a good thing and everybody needs to learn from it - especially young people who don't know any better - and succumb themselves to the negative images that are drip fed into their little heads every day.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Willbean)
    I find that hot and attractive.
    At your age, but the women hot to you will snare and settle at some point, there will come a point when it just becomes perplexing that they don;t want to settle and have at least one kid with anyone, at my age, early thirties, it'll look more like obtuseness or insecurity even.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A5ko)
    As guys we can hardly complain. Maybe if you stop going after shallow little tarts you won't have these problems.
    Perfect. Women have it worse I'm sorry.

    Singletons: guy has to be nice and kind. Girl is interested. Girl has to be stunning, stylish, easy yet hard to pull??

    Relationships: for a girl to cheat/leave her man the new man has to be amazing. For a guy to cheat/leave the girl only has to be some cheap slut,


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Spontogical)
    So what? Post it here so your young brethren can learn from it and grow.

    In other words, you've learnt how to redefine and interpret particular concepts and ideas to those that benefit you than work against you. Such as success, failure, rejection etc etc.

    That's a good thing and everybody needs to learn from it - especially young people who don't know any better - and succumb themselves to the negative images that are drip fed into their little heads every day.
    ok Here then:



    This video is amazing, I watch it whenever I feel unmotivated, In particular what he said about when you travel and stick within the little tourist bubble+ the metaphor of people as plants. But not for everyone
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by holmes221)
    ok Here then:



    This video is amazing, I watch it whenever I feel unmotivated, In particular what he said about when you travel and stick within the little tourist bubble+ the metaphor of people as plants. But not for everyone
    That's what I had in mind. It's a great video.

    People just aren't willing to get out there and make their lives meaningful. I think this is a problem that spans across most people.

    EDIT 2: Though the pick-up community, hmmm....I do agree with the majority of what he's saying though.
    • #1
    #1

    (Original post by Chillaxer)
    But it's tragic. I'm in this boat right now, of someone who can be so feminine and gentle and I'm in love with her, and then she ruins it by being all careerist obsessed and female bonding and man like. It actually breaks my heart, and she'll be coming to the end of her fertility relatively soonish. I can see another woman who I'm not as in love with, but at least she's got the sense not to be that way, to be strong but to have feminine qualities too, to want to settle. I might end up seeing the great things in her. I don't know if it comes down to fear of hurt or insecurity to invest all in career, but it is unfeminine and guys are being left utterly perplexed. I think down to somethings I've read that it might be women down on their physical attractiveness, which is sad because I wish I could tell her....

    etc
    Women could be different in so many ways. I am a careerist too, already an accountant and now studying to become a lawyer and will hopefully graduate by next year...BUT, I am as well a hopeless romantic and I once fell in love with someone whom I could have easily given up my career for. Problem is, he's the one who wasnt ready. I think anytime somebody worthy comes along again, I could still do the same, because what's important for me I guess is that I've achieved enough and done enough, and my heart, like my head, has its own needs too.

    Maybe it's all about timing too--like at which stage in your lives the two of you met. It just so happens you're not at the same stage of wanting to settle down. So I guess it's up to you to wait, or just look for an evenly minded (and ready) person.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    This thread annoys me to no extent.

    A) It's hard to find a person who is not intimidated by me- I'm 5'8, and 10.5 stone. It's to do with my personality.

    B) I think guys seem to want a girl who would sleep with them almost immediately, laugh at all their jokes and not call them out on some insults in the form of 'jokes'. I do.

    C) Guys, if you want to date someone, make sure you have the time for it. By this I mean not missing dates 3 times in a row.

    D) All I ask is for you not to be overweight, smell nice, and be taller than me!

    Disclaimer- it's my opinion!
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Molly_xox)
    I'm a girl and I feel guys expect a lot too.

    I have always felt (and been told by some people) I look 'okay'. My body is 'okay'. But what does that even mean? I have a slight figure, meaning I have a little bit of a bum, and a little bit of a bust. Yet all lads seem to talk about is 'what do you prefer; boobs or bum?' Or 'curvy girls are so much better, only a dog wants a bone' etc. I just feel expectations have seesawed - in the same way there are people with natural curves that can't be size 0, there are girls with natural straight lines, but no one remembers that body shapes aren't like fashions and can be thrown out and changed on a regular basis. So what, we're supposed to be petite with DDs and a massive arse? No one in the world has a body like that. No one looks like they do on TV. That's why they're on TV.

    I understand that a lot is expected of men, to be the Prince Charming and to treat the girl like a flower, I think that sucks. Yes, there is no excuse for being treated badly but nobody's perfect. There's just someone out there who's perfect for you.

    When you find a good relationship, none of this matters. But until then, all this bull hurts. If we all communicated maybe it would be better for everyone.
    You need better friends.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tommyjazzhands)
    Firstly, I would like to say that girls/women have it tough. If not more so. However, society, advertising and the americanisation of culture is demanding more of us every decade, including guys.

    Why is it that we are all made to feel inadequate all the time? We have to have better this, bigger that or faster this? To me it's rubbish.

    Admittedly this has been triggered by my longing for girls who seem to care more about what society and their peers expect as opposed to what they actually feel themselves individually.

    I feel like I have to be taller, stronger, more intelligent, cooler and more popular. If I could isolate one reason, it would be the increasing Americanisation of our culture. Life is not perfect and I think we should all learn to be more acceptant of each others imperfections. Ok rant over. I'd like to add I do quite well with the opposite sex, but sometimes I feel like I'm being judged on superficiality to a great extent.

    Any thoughts?
    I agree totally with this. I would also add that women want sweet sensitive guys etc but then the rest of society want big strong tough guys, shows no emotion etc So many men are caught in the middle, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHICH ONE TO BE?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by missderrie)
    Perfect. Women have it worse I'm sorry.

    Singletons: guy has to be nice and kind. Girl is interested. Girl has to be stunning, stylish, easy yet hard to pull??

    Relationships: for a girl to cheat/leave her man the new man has to be amazing. For a guy to cheat/leave the girl only has to be some cheap slut,
    Sounds like somebody's had a bad experience.
    Stop dating idiots. You'll know he's an idiot if you have to fulfill any of your 3 requirements to get a date with him. How can a guy be nice and kind if he expects girls to be any of those things before he considers them?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 15, 2013
Poll
Should MenACWY vaccination be compulsory at uni?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.