Join TSR now to have your say on this topicSign up now
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    It's Much more important at the bottom end of the labour market. If you're in a commoditized job and you could easily be replaced, then it makes a lot more sense to be in a union. It's like buying a job insurance policy with some legal advice and financial services thrown in.

    But tbh I wouldn't want the extra hassle of being the one organising a union in my workplace... So I'd be a bit of a freeloader.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    Not if the union is overly militant-think RMT with Bob Crow and the forever striking tube drivers who will earn 52k by 2015! For only 35 hours work a week and free travel for themselves and their family!

    Never mind you would be forced to directly or indirectly fund the Labour party and Bob Crow's ironically high salary!
    Especially if the union is very effective like the RMT. Unless you're prepared to forgo the benefits the union negotiates.

    As for funding the labour party, everyone has the option to not pay the political fund.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I would never join a union because whilst i have no issue with collective bargaining i consider strikes and the government protection that surrounds them to be abhorrent and could not be affiliated with such an organization if i wished to keep my dignity.
    What government protection is giving to strikes? You do realise people who go on strike don't get paid and can't get social security.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't really have a problem with organised labour in theory - but the reality of it is that most unions are fronts for far-left politics.
    I'm sorry, this is absolute and utter nonsense. Aside from the RMT and UCU, unions tend to be centre-left, which considering their remit is doing their best to support their members rights, pay and working conditions, is actually entirely justifiable from a pragmatic perspective

    It sounds like you really don't know very much about the daily work of unions.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    When i was doing my shop steward training with Unite, there was a tory on the course as well as people with no particular politics. Unions are not far left. They are reformist not revolutionary.
    Exactly. Excellent comment.

    Then again, a lot of people aren't particularly aware of the difference between revolutionary socialism / Marxism-Leninism and social democracy and parliamentary socialism (like the old Callaghan / Healeyite / Bennite wing of the Labour Party).

    Far-left only if you're infuriated by anything to the left of Ghengis Khan.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Especially if the union is very effective like the RMT. Unless you're prepared to forgo the benefits the union negotiates.

    As for funding the labour party, everyone has the option to not pay the political fund.
    Moreover, RMT isn't affliated to the Labour Party any more.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Exactly. Excellent comment.

    Then again, a lot of people aren't particularly aware of the difference between revolutionary socialism / Marxism-Leninism and social democracy and parliamentary socialism (like the old Callaghan / Healeyite / Bennite wing of the Labour Party).

    Far-left only if you're infuriated by anything to the left of Ghengis Khan.
    Indeed, when revolutionary situations do arise the unions usually try to restrain and hold back angry workers.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Especially if the union is very effective like the RMT. Unless you're prepared to forgo the benefits the union negotiates.

    As for funding the labour party, everyone has the option to not pay the political fund.
    The union is effective -it'll end up fast forwarding plans to bring in driverless trains! And reducing them to just PSAs like on the DLR and reducing pay accordingly especially ad they will no longer be able to cripple London by striking

    Effectively they will end up in a similar way to the miners-sacked in favour of machines
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    I already have joined a union. I joined when I was working for a well-known pub chain that was throwing its weight around and threatening to sack me when I said I wasn't going to hand over biometric data to them. They soon changed their tune when I said I'd joined a union, so I've remained a member ever since.

    (Original post by a729)
    Effectively they will end up in a similar way to the miners-sacked in favour of machines
    The miners weren't sacked in favour of machines, they were sacked in favour of closing the pits and introducing intergenerational unemployment and social problems into towns and villages that had previously been centred around the pit and had functioned quite well.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Yet no doubt you'd happily accept better terms and conditions won by unions. We have a word for people like you.
    Yes.

    The primary purpose of a union is to engage in voluntary collective bargaining and this is something i do not object to however because governments now protect employees when they strike this has meant that unions have become militant and attempt to extort rather than negotiate better working conditions.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    What government protection is giving to strikes? You do realise people who go on strike don't get paid and can't get social security.
    Unions cannot be sued for a variety of things and employees cannot be sacked for striking. If you allowed people to be sacked then unions would stick to collective bargaining and not striking.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I'm a member, I work in the NHS and even though I'm not a fan of unions there's a lot of uncertainty with trust restructuring. I left my previous job because my contract was being changed (against my will) so I'd have been working nights and unable to study at college. The unions slowed that to ensure the shifts were fair and that people won't suddenly see a massive wage drop as they lose overtime.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    What government protection is giving to strikes? You do realise people who go on strike don't get paid and can't get social security.
    Unions reimburse people who go on strikes and the government can't fire people for doing so.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Yes.

    The primary purpose of a union is to engage in voluntary collective bargaining and this is something i do not object to however because governments now protect employees when they strike this has meant that unions have become militant and attempt to extort rather than negotiate better working conditions.
    What use is collective bargaining with no leverage? If you want workers not to strike then you also have to have employers who can't sack.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    No. They're selfish, impractical and everything they claim to be fighting against. As bad as big business imo.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Unions cannot be sued for a variety of things and employees cannot be sacked for striking. If you allowed people to be sacked then unions would stick to collective bargaining and not striking.
    I get the impression you have little experience of working.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Negged for having a perfectly reasonable alternative opinion :rolleyes: For all the people on here who preach freedom of speech and tolerance you well err aren't very tolerant.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    I get the impression you have little experience of working.
    I'm a 'mature student', i chose to work for 4 years after i left school.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I'm a 'mature student', i chose to work for 4 years after i left school.
    Well you give the impression of extreme naivety.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LeBuche)
    Negged for having a perfectly reasonable alternative opinion :rolleyes: For all the people on here who preach freedom of speech and tolerance you well err aren't very tolerant.
    Maybe if you make a reasoned argument and not just meaningless assertions?
 
 
 
Poll
Which web browser do you use?
General election 2017 on TSR
Register to vote

Registering to vote?

Check out our guide for everything you need to know

Manifesto snapshots

Manifesto Snapshots

All you need to know about the 2017 party manifestos

Party Leader questions

Party Leader Q&A

Ask political party leaders your questions

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.