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Does University Really Matter THAT Much? Watch

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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    Go on the website of some of the major law firms and have a look at which careers fairs they attend. This should give you a good indication as to which universities they "favour".


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    They just go to general 'milk round' unis, though, don't they? I'm not sure that that makes it a 'target' in the sense that people use it with IB/C.

    In any case, not going to those unis probably won't disadvantage you in itself.


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    Go on the website of some of the major law firms and have a look at which careers fairs they attend. This should give you a good indication as to which universities they "favour".


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You will find that the largest law firms tend to attend virtually all of those organised by pre-92 universities. Effectively they have professional staff who do little else supplemented by fee earners taking their turns for a jolly. Moreover many of the big northern law fairs are "town" events open to students of any of the universities in the area.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    They just go to general 'milk round' unis, though, don't they? I'm not sure that that makes it a 'target' in the sense that people use it with IB/C.

    In any case, not going to those unis probably won't disadvantage you in itself.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If we're talking top City firms, which I presume, then in addition to my prevous post have a look at their current roster of trainees, partners and solicitors.

    Having done that, are you seriously trying to tell me that there is no concept of a target at all, however slight?


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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You will find that the largest law firms tend to attend virtually all of those organised by pre-92 universities. Effectively they have professional staff who do little else supplemented by fee earners taking their turns for a jolly. Moreover many of the big northern law fairs are "town" events open to students of any of the universities in the area.
    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to achieve with this post, but I'm prepared to wager that there are more lawyers who went to Kings working at the elite MC law firms than there are Sheffield/City/SOAS combined.


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    i think so. not only because of the knowledge you acquire but because all the experiences involved!! i think its necessary for personal growth and development

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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to achieve with this post, but I'm prepared to wager that there are more lawyers who went to Kings working at the elite MC law firms than there are Sheffield/City/SOAS combined.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I think the point here is that, whilst firms may have universities that they particularly rate or favour, it's not necessarily the case that those firms pro-actively "target" those institutions in any way.

    Law fairs aren't an accurate indication of a firm's preferred institutions: they tend (as NT noted above) to visit many universities and cities.

    Be careful of assuming that where a firm's partners went to Uni is an accurate reflection of current recruitment practices. Many of those partners will have left Uni over 20 years ago and the higher education landscape is a little different now. I agree that looking at where a firm's current crop of trainees and JAs went, is probably a helpful indicator of which institutions are the flavour of the month.
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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    If we're talking top City firms, which I presume, then in addition to my prevous post have a look at their current roster of trainees, partners and solicitors.

    Having done that, are you seriously trying to tell me that there is no concept of a target at all, however slight?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    There is no need to get so wound up about it.

    It is true that most of the intake will be from 'top 20' institutions with the usual bias in favour of the usual suspects. I disagree that this is an indication of a 'targeted' strategy.

    I certainly would not advise someone to study law at Kings over Sheffield because Kings is more targeted. In my experience, it just doesn't work like that.

    I gather the breakdown if institutions is in line with that of regular top level grad schemes. I suppose they 'target' a select number of unis, too?


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    (Original post by chalks)
    I think the point here is that, whilst firms may have universities that they particularly rate or favour, it's not necessarily the case that those firms pro-actively "target" those institutions in any way.

    Law fairs aren't an accurate indication of a firm's preferred institutions: they tend (as NT noted above) to visit many universities and cities.

    Be careful of assuming that where a firm's partners went to Uni is an accurate reflection of current recruitment practices. Many of those partners will have left Uni over 20 years ago and the higher education landscape is a little different now. I agree that looking at where a firm's current crop of trainees and JAs went, is probably a helpful indicator of which institutions are the flavour of the month.
    This.


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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    There is no need to get so wound up about it.

    It is true that most of the intake will be from 'top 20' institutions with the usual bias in favour of the usual suspects. I disagree that this is an indication of a 'targeted' strategy.

    I certainly would not advise someone to study law at Kings over Sheffield because Kings is more targeted. In my experience, it just doesn't work like that.

    I gather the breakdown if institutions is in line with that of regular top level grad schemes. I suppose they 'target' a select number of unis, too?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Well they quite clearly target students from certain universities. I was merely responding to the OP's question with my opinion that Kings' students, out of the options, are the most sought after by employers. Feel free to disagree but this is just from my own experience, within law and beyond.


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    Well they quite clearly target students from certain universities. I was merely responding to the OP's question with my opinion that Kings' students, out of the options, are the most sought after by employers. Feel free to disagree but this is just from my own experience, within law and beyond.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I don't think they do quite clearly target certain places.. They visit certain London unis- but is entry restricted to those places alone? Obviously all employers visit Oxford and Cambridge.

    But you'll find that when they say they visit Nottingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool or Newcastle they visit the city and not the university. Entry is open to the traditional uni, the ex poly and any law schools in the area. The event is advertised in all institutions.

    In Manchester the event is even held in a 'neutral' venue. As I said, there may be some bias in favour of the top 20 or so.

    I think the issue is with the use of the word 'target' because it suggests an exclusion of others.


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to achieve with this post, but I'm prepared to wager that there are more lawyers who went to Kings working at the elite MC law firms than there are Sheffield/City/SOAS combined.
    But that doesn't necessarily imply the conclusion that you want it to, that the firms 'target' Kings.

    The firms may have some absolutely objective standard which does not factor in what university a candidate attended but which nonetheless students from Kings, on average, are more likely to satisfy that standard than students from SOAS.

    To take an obvious example, if a law firm requires candidates to have AAB at A-level, it will take more trainees from Oxford than from Bolton. But that standard does not 'target' Oxford to the detriment of Bolton, it's just that most undergrads at Bolton will not meet the criterion.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    But that doesn't necessarily imply the conclusion that you want it to, that the firms 'target' Kings.

    The firms may have some absolutely objective standard which does not factor in what university a candidate attended but which nonetheless students from Kings, on average, are more likely to satisfy that standard than students from SOAS.

    To take an obvious example, if a law firm requires candidates to have AAB at A-level, it will take more trainees from Oxford than from Bolton. But that standard does not 'target' Oxford to the detriment of Bolton, it's just that most undergrads at Bolton will not meet the criterion.
    Well why not? Why do you assume that candidates from Bolton don't have AAB at A Level?


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    Well why not? Why do you assume that candidates from Bolton don't have AAB at A Level?
    Because more often than not, people who have an AAB will not end up going to Bolton. If an AAB students does go to that kind of uni, there are generally very compelling reasons for the decision (wanting to be close to home, financial issues, etc.)
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I don't think they do quite clearly target certain places.. They visit certain London unis- but is entry restricted to those places alone? Obviously all employers visit Oxford and Cambridge.

    But you'll find that when they say they visit Nottingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool or Newcastle they visit the city and not the university. Entry is open to the traditional uni, the ex poly and any law schools in the area. The event is advertised in all institutions.

    In Manchester the event is even held in a 'neutral' venue. As I said, there may be some bias in favour of the top 20 or so.

    I think the issue is with the use of the word 'target' because it suggests an exclusion of others.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I maintain my stance.

    Applications to banks are also open to students from any univerity, though only students from certain universities make it through to interview. It's the same with law, though probably not as stringent when compared to the banks.

    I think this article may be used as a guide to back up my point:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...employers.html


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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I don't think they do quite clearly target certain places.. They visit certain London unis- but is entry restricted to those places alone? Obviously all employers visit Oxford and Cambridge.

    But you'll find that when they say they visit Nottingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool or Newcastle they visit the city and not the university. Entry is open to the traditional uni, the ex poly and any law schools in the area. The event is advertised in all institutions.

    In Manchester the event is even held in a 'neutral' venue. As I said, there may be some bias in favour of the top 20 or so.

    I think the issue is with the use of the word 'target' because it suggests an exclusion of others.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Oh and before you respond by saying Kings isn't even on that list, I maintain that Kings graduates, specifically for law, based on my own experience are very highly sought after.


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    I maintain my stance.

    Applications to banks are also open to students from any univerity, though only students from certain universities make it through to interview. It's the same with law, though probably not as stringent when compared to the banks.

    I think this article may be used as a guide to back up my point:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...employers.html


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    "Firms will target 20 or fewer universities".

    I recognised bias in favour of the 'top 20' in my previous posts.

    However, I dispute that the advantage of attending a 'target uni' when it comes to the legal sector is so great that it should be a factor.

    Those unis produce the highest number of trainees because the students are more likely to be suitable. But this would not stop a student from elsewhere landing a TC, it just means that students from elsewhere may have less information given to them about the firm.

    There is no hard targeting, otherwise you wouldn't find grads from lower ranked unis in law firms... Yet you do.


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    Strangely enough, I'd suggest doing Geography would probably make it a bit easier to become a lawyer. To make a huge generalization, law is generally harder/more competitive than your standard arts degree, so it may be easier to get a higher mark in a different subject than you would if you did law. You'd also probably be able to get into a slightly better uni (ie, KCL here) making your CV look better in the end.

    Fortunately, employers don't seem to notice or rather don't take into account at all.
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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    Well why not? Why do you assume that candidates from Bolton don't have AAB at A Level?
    The average entry tariff of a Bolton law student is 220 points - equivalent to CCD, I think, but been a while since I was an A-Level student. Clearly that is an average only, and there may be students with AAB who for one reason or another choose to go to Bolton, but it's pretty safe (and hardly an 'assumption) to say that this number is less than the number that go to Oxford, where the average entry tariff for law is 520 points. [At least the proportion is much less, I have assumed that the Bolton course doesn't have many times more students that the Oxford course].

    Another factor is that if you take our atypical hypothetical Bolton student with AAB, the same reasons that they decided to attend Bolton (perhaps they have family commitments or are a mature student with limited freedom to move from Lancashire to elsewhere) might also lead them to be less likely to even apply for a TC at a MC firm in London. They might be aiming for a provincial firm in their local area, apply to one, and get in. That doesn't mean that the MC firm doesn't 'target' them, rather the other way around.

    Even if a student attends Bolton with AAB, but could have gone elsewhere, and could move to London to do an MC TC, they might not consider it as a serious option when they look at what their peers are aspiring for and the sort of advice their career's service is handing out.

    And of course, even if they do want to apply for an MC TC, the fact they meet the A-level hurdle doesn't guarantee them a spot. Their legal knowledge will not be as good as their clone who was exactly as good as them at 18, but went to Oxford instead of Bolton, because the quality of the course is better. And no doubt that will show on the application form as well, even if the firm completely ignores the name of the university.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    "Firms will target 20 or fewer universities".

    I recognised bias in favour of the 'top 20' in my previous posts.

    However, I dispute that the advantage of attending a 'target uni' when it comes to the legal sector is so great that it should be a factor.

    Those unis produce the highest number of trainees because the students are more likely to be suitable. But this would not stop a student from elsewhere landing a TC, it just means that students from elsewhere may have less information given to them about the firm.

    There is no hard targeting, otherwise you wouldn't find grads from lower ranked unis in law firms... Yet you do.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/Law/WebExtras/16

    Scroll down to the bit where it says:

    "The firm actively targets the following universities: Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Kings, Leicester, LSE, Manchester, Nottingham, Oxford, Southampton, Queens University Belfast, UCL, Warwick and York."

    While I am not in any way suggesting that firms stringently recruit from a specific group of universities each and every academic year, I am alluding to the fact that going to a specific university - as per the OP's question - can significantly increase your chance of obtaining a TC at a law firm.

    One very well may obtain a TC having gone to a 'lesser' university as it were, though statistically speaking, this tends to be the very rare exception rather than the rule.


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    (Original post by Underd0g)
    http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/Law/WebExtras/16

    Scroll down to the bit where it says:

    "The firm actively targets the following universities: Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Kings, Leicester, LSE, Manchester, Nottingham, Oxford, Southampton, Queens University Belfast, UCL, Warwick and York."

    While I am not in any way suggesting that firms stringently recruit from a specific group of universities each and every academic year, I am alluding to the fact that going to a specific university - as per the OP's question - can significantly increase your chance of obtaining a TC at a law firm.

    One very well may obtain a TC having gone to a 'lesser' university as it were, though statistically speaking, this tends to be the very rare exception rather than the rule.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    B&M is not exactly typical of the 'top' law firms, though. It's fairly well accepted that American firms are a bit more elitist.

    In any case, again, I doubt the usefulness if attending those unis. If good apps from other places are "happily accepted" then the only advantage you may get from a target uni is that they thrust their presence on you and you might meet one or two people.

    A good candidate from outside can make that up with their own initiative.

    All things considered, I would never say "go and study X at Manchester over Sheffield because B&M target Manchester uni" or "because more firms target Manchester".

    I'd say "make the decision based on where you think you'd excel all round and balance that against where you would most like to be. Do well and get involved. If you want to join a firm a couple of years in the future which perhaps targets Manchester, just do your research and get yourself to their law fair when it's on".


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