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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    The whole premise of the series is that the Doctor is the only remaining timelord by his own hand and that he sacrificed his people to save the Universe.
    You do know the show didnt start in 2005 right? The premise of the show is an alien having adventures in space and time (in fact, if we are being precise it was really also to teach children about history)

    Finally, I hated the incosistencies in the story. The time war was supposedly timelocked in order to protect the Universe (and stop the war from spilling over) by the Doctor - this core story is basically ignored.
    See my above post, time war was not locked

    The time lords are also supposed to be a proud, vain, battlehardened and vicious people - instead we see them floundering and only as victims of the Daleks. The time war had atrocities on both sides - remember the timelords burned worlds too in their fight against the Daleks.
    We did see these timelords you mention in the conference room. The people we saw on the streets were just innocent civillians. It was only a small glimpse into the time war.
    What we have just seen is the genocide of the Daleks at the hand of the Doctor. To me, that seems morally worse (although interesting if they were to expand on it) than protecting the whole Universe sealing off the war and damning both sides. Yet because the Daleks are robotic, and the timelords are humanoid - and therefore by default good, the Doctor is portrayed as a hero.
    The Daleks destroyed themselves, and no, they are not evil because they are robotic. They are evil because they want to kill anything that isnt a dalek.

    We hear a lot of timelord children - but what of Dalek children? The timelords had already destroyed major Dalek settlements so it is not justifiable to justify this as the Daleks were attackers (by all appearances the timelords were close to loosing, though again this is a misportrayal as the time war was supposed to be evenly matched and essentially neverending.)
    You don't get dalek children. The daleks are descendants of Kaleds who were all mutated by radiation and since then have been "created" by Davros. Also, the Daleks were the attackers, the whole time war was a reaction to the Doctor choosing not to stop the Daleks from being created in Genesis of the Daleks.
    Answered some things in bold.

    You need to realise that Doctor Who is a kids/family tv show.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    A friend of mine just tweeted that she was watching it in a hotel bar in Edinburgh and when Tom Baker appeared, everyone cheered! :lol:
    Yep, that happened where I was too And you could hear everyone having their little "Woooooooooaaaaaaaah!!!!" moment when we got that brief Capaldi glimpse too.
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    *HEAVY BREATHING*

    OH, MY GOD.

    I CAN'T.

    Also - 9! Nine, NINE He was my favourite Doctor! That made me happier than everything else in that episode combined.

    Oh, and what an odd villain choice. Hm.
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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    Answered some things in bold.

    You need to realise that Doctor Who is a kids/family tv show.
    The Timelords were the aggressors in the war because they sent the Doctor back int time to destroy the Daleks and the Doctor tricked the Davros into destroying Skaro.Tricking the Daleks into destroying each other by making Gallifrey disappear is genocide and goes completely against the mindset of the Doctor as seen in Journey's End.The fact the Doctor liked this was completely wrong.The Timelords were as bad as the Daleks in the time war as shown in The End of Time and The Night of the Doctor so The Doctor had no reason to save the Timelords above the Daleks and young Daleks should be classed as children.

    I really shouldn't argue too much but this was a major problem in the episode but the episode was very good in general.It was bad that the Zygons were soft and just agreed to a peace treaty, which was out of character.John Hurt was great as the Doctor and he and Matt completely outacted David Tennant as the Doctor making him look very bad at portraying the Doctor.How does everyone feel that the episode implied that Peter Capaldi will be the last doctor?
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    (Original post by bluester)
    sorry if this is a really stupid question, but who is the old man/curator at the end? is he someone we are suppose to know?
    My theory is that the 4th Doctor foolishly tired to see some "old favourites" previous incarnations of himself and forgotten that he was one of them and then went on to be a curator.I'm presuming he will then leave and become the 4th Doctor again.
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    I'm hearing Capaldi made an appearance in the episode and I must have completely missed it. When did he appear?
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    (Original post by Toppy)
    I'm hearing Capaldi made an appearance in the episode and I must have completely missed it. When did he appear?
    He was one of 13 doctors who helped freeze gallifrey.
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    I enjoyed the episode, although I felt it wasn't as great as other have said it was - especially with there being no resolution of the Zygons.

    There were more, but I was hoping people could help answer them as I couldn't find any definitive answers on the wiki:

    1. What happened at the end of The Name of the Doctor in the sense that how did the Doctor and Clara get from that place to modern day?
    2. How did the previous incarnations of the Doctor know to show up there and help move Gallifrey when the Time War hadn't even broken out for some of them.
    3. Was Tom Baker meant to be the 4th Doctor or was he someone different from Gallifrey. If it is the former, could someone please explain to me how that would be possible thanks.
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    Didn't feel right seeing Smith & Tennant without Eccleston.
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    It was so good but so flawed at the same time, but I can honestly say that Moffat did a good job.
    I think it's good that they're are kind of bringing it back to Classic Who where the Doctor can go to Gallifrey and still has his home. I admit that I was in tears for most of the episode and screamed like a little girl when Capaldi came on.
    I really hope that the Doctor is not limited to only twelve regenerations because I don't want to see him go, and I hope Capaldi stays for more than just the thirteen episodes Moffat says he will keep him on for.

    I think the saddest part for me was the there was no interaction between Ten and Rose as well as Eleven because it may be the last time we see them on screen and it's quite upsetting that we didn't get to see them on screen one last time.

    But otherwise, a really good job Moffat, the Doctor is not alone and Gallifrey Falls No More.
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    (Original post by GeekChicc)
    Nine was my favourite too!

    Why is everyone over analysing the show? It's only supposed to be entertainment and it certainly entertained me.
    Yes!! Nine was the best!! And Russell T. Davis. Tis a shame their both hardly mentioned.
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    (Original post by MusicIsMyPoison)
    I think the saddest part for me was the there was no interaction between Ten and Rose as well as Eleven because it may be the last time we see them on screen and it's quite upsetting that we didn't get to see them on screen one last time.
    I was kind of upset about this too, BUT I thought it was almost as cool seeing the little hints between them. For example, whilst Ten couldn't see Rose, she could see him, and the little flashes of hurt and wanting were brilliant. And Ten's mention of 'Bad Wolf Girl' was good, too. I'm left to wonder if he ever went to find the aforementioned Bad Wolf Girl again.

    But yeah, maybe Tentoo and Rose would've been nice.
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    (Original post by Toppy)
    I'm hearing Capaldi made an appearance in the episode and I must have completely missed it. When did he appear?
    I can't remember the exact point, but it was towards the end - it was only a very brief moment and we really only saw his eyes and forehead.
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    (Original post by pierreboobvier)
    I was kind of upset about this too, BUT I thought it was almost as cool seeing the little hints between them. For example, whilst Ten couldn't see Rose, she could see him, and the little flashes of hurt and wanting were brilliant. And Ten's mention of 'Bad Wolf Girl' was good, too. I'm left to wonder if he ever went to find the aforementioned Bad Wolf Girl again.

    But yeah, maybe Tentoo and Rose would've been nice.
    There was something about the way both doctors said "Bad Wolf Girl?!" in a slightly shocked voice that was ominous, I suddenly started wondering if they knew something that John Hurt didn't and that Moment was playing a dirty game of some kind - it was sinister, almost not as if they just recognised the incident from their 'pasts'. That surprised, sinister note was left kind of hanging and unfulfilled.

    I think we are going to get some elaborate plots coming up about how Gallifrey can be freed from it's 'frozen in time' status. That will be 13's job.
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    I don't understand why some of are you are confused by the time lock thing - it's not that hard to grasp that the Doctor forgets he was able to save Gallifrey, and perhaps the hurt that he destroyed it is what gives him the drive to save it when the opportunity arises.

    As for the other, older Doctors knowing to appear - well Clara exists in all of the Doctor's timestream, perhaps she had something to do with it...
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    It really annoys me that we didn't find out how the Doctor and Clara escaped from the Doctor's timestream. It was all completely forgotten about. :facepalm: Sigh.
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    (Original post by snowyowl)
    I don't understand why some of are you are confused by the time lock thing - it's not that hard to grasp that the Doctor forgets he was able to save Gallifrey, and perhaps the hurt that he destroyed it is what gives him the drive to save it when the opportunity arises.

    As for the other, older Doctors knowing to appear - well Clara exists in all of the Doctor's timestream, perhaps she had something to do with it...
    I don't think people are confused by it, rather they (we) are disappointed that the writers made no attempt whatsoever to justify what was otherwise just an incredibly convenient set of get-arounds. We're supposed to believe that this time-lock, which can't ever be entered, can suddenly and conveniently be entered thanks to the vague and unspecified capabilities of this sentient bomb, and that each Doctor happily forgets everything right back until the arbitrary point just before he met his past/future selves. It's not understanding what happened that is the problem, it's just that the writing seems lazy - "we'll get around that thing that had previously been an absolute constraint that couldn't be got around, and we'll make him conveniently forget everything so we don't have to explain any continuity errors".
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    Only things were that there was no interaction of Rose/bad wolf and 10 and 11. Therefore I didn't feel there was complete closure. Also I'm not sure if saving Gallifrey was the best of things, as the doctor had said before, the time war changed the Timelords and how they weren't as peaceful so it was best they didn't survive. So mixed messages there.

    Apart from that it was great, loved the humour and delivery of the whole thing
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    I thought it was fantastic - I know some people felt that it would have made the doctor a more interesting character had he killed all the daleks and all the Gallifreyans, but we have to remember that it is a family show. We probably all started watching when we were kids back in 2005, and now we've grown up and expect the show to grow with us. Which I think it has, but they do have to think about who they cater to as an audience.

    I loved the ending, with all the doctors, it was amazing! They were right when they talked about how it would change direction for Doctor Who

    I loved the humour as well, with the whole timey wimey thing
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    Thought John Hurt was brilliant as the Doctor, Joanna Page less so as Queen Elizabeth I (more Miranda Richardson than Judi Dench), that was the only bit of bad casting in it though the rest (Tennant, Smith, Hurt, Coleman, Redgrave etc.) were very strong. Thought footage of the actual Time War itself was quite sparse (no Master, no Nightmare Child, no Dalek Emperor, no Cruciform etc.), I was also under the impression that the Doctor fought on the front line as well as using the Moment to end the war.

    Moffat still did a good job on it though and has made a bold move in changing the narrative and history of the revived series. It was definitely an episode for the fans.

    Two final questions:
    1) How did the Doctor and Clara escape the Doctor's time stream from the series finale? Thought River Song said it would be impossible and that they'd be trapped.
    2) What causes the regeneration of John Hurt's Doctor? Was it quite simply old age in his current incarnation like Hartnell?

 
 
 
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