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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

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    (Original post by hannahlizwoods)
    i am a tad bit late but oh my goodness i thought doctor who was good!!!! my mum thought it was awful but i think there will be some good developments in the series.
    on a side note if the dinosaur was in the thames why didnt she go out as soon as she combusted? important questions!!! :doctor:
    Water isn't always capable of putting out a fire - greek fire was a military weapon that would keep burning on water, and even still, the dinosaur was ridiculously large (definitely over 20 times their normal size given the comparison to Elizabeth Tower), the water isn't going to douse the lot of it.
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    i loovvedddd itttttt :party:

    finally got to watch it today
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    Dear God i'm one of the more positives ones here... Give me a moment to compose myself. If they do give a proper explaination to Capaldi's previous appearances then brilliant, just so long as it doesn't become a case of River where something that doesn't need touching becomes a massive, unecessary mind screw.

    Also to all those claiming sexism, I give you Peri from the 80s. Even if the female characters are given a lot of the same traits, at least they're mostly positive ones and not just breasts. A lot of the complaints feel very reductionalist - Amy is different from Clara in a lot of ways (if anything she's a more developed Sparrow) as is River. Personally I would take the former two over Rose. Ingrid Osgood, Liz Ten, Kate Stewart, Madame De Pompadour, Nancy, heck Molly from Sherlock - I would say they were all good female characters in their own way. Yes the companions are 'feisty strong women' but that's generally the kind of ones who make good TV that needs be to quick and hit that short format - Rory was a good example of a more insecure companion but he rather needs another companion there to beef it out and I think Clara is a nice pairing of the two sides seeing she's currently solo. Fingers crossed they do something more with her going through his time stream and coping with that.

    ... And now i'm defending Moffat. What a strange day.

    Also as a weird lil aside, i'll have to check it on iplayer but i'm pretty sure I saw on the newspaper that one of the combustion victims was a Maragret Roberts (Thatcher's maiden name). Made I larf.
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    (Original post by IMakeSenseToNone)
    Dear God i'm one of the more positives ones here... Give me a moment to compose myself. If they do give a proper explaination to Capaldi's previous appearances then brilliant, just so long as it doesn't become a case of River where something that doesn't need touching becomes a massive, unecessary mind screw.

    Also to all those claiming sexism, I give you Peri from the 80s. Even if the female characters are given a lot of the same traits, at least they're mostly positive ones and not just breasts. A lot of the complaints feel very reductionalist - Amy is different from Clara in a lot of ways (if anything she's a more developed Sparrow) as is River. Personally I would take the former two over Rose. Ingrid Osgood, Liz Ten, Kate Stewart, Madame De Pompadour, Nancy, heck Molly from Sherlock - I would say they were all good female characters in their own way. Yes the companions are 'feisty strong women' but that's generally the kind of ones who make good TV that needs be to quick and hit that short format - Rory was a good example of a more insecure companion but he rather needs another companion there to beef it out and I think Clara is a nice pairing of the two sides seeing she's currently solo. Fingers crossed they do something more with her going through his time stream and coping with that.

    ... And now i'm defending Moffat. What a strange day.

    Also as a weird lil aside, i'll have to check it on iplayer but i'm pretty sure I saw on the newspaper that one of the combustion victims was a Maragret Roberts (Thatcher's maiden name). Made I larf.
    Now I can't agree with that - all of moffats female companions have been slightly feisty but head over heels with the doctor - there's really not that much difference between them. Hell, of the 5 female travelling companions in the reboot, only one hasn't been "smitten girl who needs his help" and that's donna. It's not just female characters though - mickey and Rory had pretty much the same idea behind them - insecure and slightly useless, travelling only to stop their girlfriend falling for the doctor and forgetting them. There's just not enough variety in the companions - every doctor has their own personality, but all the companions seem to have the same character brief.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Now I can't agree with that - all of moffats female companions have been slightly feisty but head over heels with the doctor - there's really not that much difference between them. Hell, of the 5 female travelling companions in the reboot, only one hasn't been "smitten girl who needs his help" and that's donna. It's not just female characters though - mickey and Rory had pretty much the same idea behind them - insecure and slightly useless, travelling only to stop their girlfriend falling for the doctor and forgetting them. There's just not enough variety in the companions - every doctor has their own personality, but all the companions seem to have the same character brief.
    I would rather put Sarah Jane in there as well, I do like School Reunion but she is another DT fangirl in it to say just how gosh darn marvellous he is. And god was Mickey a poorly done character.

    Apologies in advance if I get this a bit wrong, haven't watched a lot of the Smith era in a while but I always saw the Doctor as being more smitten with Amy than the other way around, least by the end. Definitely at the beginning Amy is the one who is obsessed with him (can't really blame her after having that experience as a child) but in season 7 the Doctor is the one who can't let them go when they've moved on. Also Amy is who he sees as he regenerates, whereas in the Angels Take Manhattan she rather chooses Rory over him.

    I do agree that the baseline is rather the same but it's slightly unfair to boil them down to that. I think the development and traits of the characters are fairly unique, not saying it's perfect, goodness knows i'm not a big Moffat fan and we need someone who portrays the female experience outside of young twenty, hetero, middle class female again but they still stand up in their own right. It'll be interesting to see how the Clara and Danny relationship goes, hopefully it's genuine and not just a substitute for the fact she doesn't find the 'ol Doc attractive anymore. It is a shame that the writers think that an attraction is de facto due to the vary nature of the Doctor but maybe Capaldi's time will move away from that (i'll reserve judgement on Deep Breathe's final scene until we learn more).
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    I just got round to watching it and actually really liked it. I wasn't convinced I would because Capaldi's scene after the regeneration in the Christmas episode felt flat to me. But I thought this was pretty great overall, and I loved the diner scene - I found it funny when Clara realised the doctor had called her an egomaniac, and then the reveal of what was wrong with the diner was done excellently to make a very sinister vibe.

    Obviously he's very different so not everyone will like him, but I think he's what's needed. If they had done another fresh-faced, childish doctor everyone would just think he was copying the last two and that the show was getting stale. I do think some people just aren't giving him a chance because they don't want an older doctor. But even if you didn't like him, remember that Tennant's acting in his first episode was objectively terrible and he still became beloved.

    (Original post by triplet3)
    I was so dissapointed with yesterdays episode The writing and characters are simply just not as good as they used to be...the plotline wasn't unique or interesting, the characters are cheesy and boring, it almost seems like they have made it really childish with all the slapstick humour? I dont know, just in comparison to the storylines of Christopher Eccleston/David Tennants seasons, there is a clear different in quality
    I feel some rose-tinted glasses here. I mean two of Eccleston's thirteen episodes were based around fart jokes (those aliens that put on human suits and kept farting). Slapstick and childish humour has featured all the way since the start of the revived Doctor Who.
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I just got round to watching it and actually really liked it. I wasn't convinced I would because Capaldi's scene after the regeneration in the Christmas episode felt flat to me. But I thought this was pretty great overall, and I loved the diner scene - I found it funny when Clara realised the doctor had called her an egomaniac, and then the reveal of what was wrong with the diner was done excellently to make a very sinister vibe.

    Obviously he's very different so not everyone will like him, but I think he's what's needed. If they had done another fresh-faced, childish doctor everyone would just think he was copying the last two and that the show was getting stale. I do think some people just aren't giving him a chance because they don't want an older doctor. But even if you didn't like him, remember that Tennant's acting in his first episode was objectively terrible and he still became beloved.



    I feel some rose-tinted glasses here. I mean two of Eccleston's thirteen episodes were based around fart jokes (those aliens that put on human suits and kept farting). Slapstick and childish humour has featured all the way since the start of the revived Doctor Who.
    I've got to be honest I really found the episode terrible, like a few childish jokes are okay but I felt the humour just doesn't match the type of Doctor Capaldi looks like he'll be. The ridiculous oversized T-rex, which then had nothing to do with the actual plot, started the episode off badly.

    On the plus side I really do think Capadi could be a great doctor and I agree that someone totally new and older (not that I'm saying Smith was bad at all) will be really good for the show
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    (Original post by SirMasterKey)
    But then what happen Capaldi being in Torchwood Children of Earth where IIRC he killed himself in the end?
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    Its very unlikely that theory will be true because Russell T Davies came up with the original theory with just Torchwood and Pompeii Capaldi(so the orginal theory had nothing to do with The Doctor).If this theory is true then Children of Earth will be the regeneration story for Capaldi's Doctor.
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
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    Its very unlikely that theory will be true because Russell T Davies came up with the original theory with just Torchwood and Pompeii Capaldi(so the orginal theory had nothing to do with The Doctor).If this theory is true then Children of Earth will be the regeneration story for Capaldi's Doctor.
    You mean that The Doctor IS Frobisher? Because John Frobisher is in no way Doctor-esque. If he was The Doctor, just pre-regen, he would not have volunteered 10% of the world's children without a fight and try to murder Jack Harkness and Torchwood. Unless he's really THAT dark... Also, he had a wife and kids (well, he killed them all)?


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Water isn't always capable of putting out a fire - greek fire was a military weapon that would keep burning on water, and even still, the dinosaur was ridiculously large (definitely over 20 times their normal size given the comparison to Elizabeth Tower), the water isn't going to douse the lot of it.
    Thanks!
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    I hate Moffat as series lead writer and always have. I only watch it for the hope that one day it'll get better. People have suggested I've just grown out of Doctor Who, but I love rewatching series 1-4.

    Moffat has to go!
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    I'm not a Moffat fan at all, but really enjoyed that episode. Capaldi's such a strong lead. Completely blew Smith out of the water.
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    (Original post by danconway)
    You mean that The Doctor IS Frobisher? Because John Frobisher is in no way Doctor-esque. If he was The Doctor, just pre-regen, he would not have volunteered 10% of the world's children without a fight and try to murder Jack Harkness and Torchwood. Unless he's really THAT dark... Also, he had a wife and kids (well, he killed them all)?


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    The Doctor would have used the fobwatch though and like how John Smith wasn't The Doctor Frobisher isn't really.
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
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    The Doctor would have used the fobwatch though and like how John Smith wasn't The Doctor Frobisher isn't really.
    Ooh that's beautifully feasible.
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    (Original post by Maid Marian)
    Enjoyed it:yep: Love wiping poo on my face
    Omg WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!
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    (Original post by timeywimey)
    Clockwork droids, they were in a season 3 tennant episode


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    Series 2, actually.
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    I love Steven Moffat. His era is my favourite so far and I loved Deep Breath. The Clockwork Droids were maybe a little underused but Peter Capaldi was fantastic and I think he's going to be a brilliant Doctor(if not as good as David Tennant, who takes a lot of beating).
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    Hard to judge the Doctor based on one episode, half of which was spent in post-regeneration trauma. There's still a lot more to come from Capaldi yet I think, but it looks promising.

    The episode itself was okay, and some aspects, such as the symbolism of the veil were done rather clumsily. Some genuinely chilling scenes in the restaurant though. As for the end scene, I can't help sensing another plot thread that Moffat will quickly get bored of or forget about and it will end up going nowhere, as usual.
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    (Original post by KATCreative)
    Hard to judge the Doctor based on one episode, half of which was spent in post-regeneration trauma. There's still a lot more to come from Capaldi yet I think, but it looks promising.
    .
    I hope a lot of the eccentricity remains and isn't just post-regeneration trauma. Peter Capaldi is best with comedy in my opinion and if he is as funny as in Deep Breath, I can see him being a great comedy Doctor as opposed to a dark one.
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    Totally agree with Capaldi in the Q&A, bring back the original cybermen! Tons better than the new ones, brain in a robot is boring and unoriginal, a person who has willingly turned themselves into something sub human through hyper plastic surgery is marvellous.

    -

    So I gave it another watch and hopefully i've got more of a handle on some of the flaws and strengths.

    Weaknesses:

    Clara and patronising the audience - I love Jenna and Clara got much more to do and had some stand out moments but her stand in for the audience doesn't work. She's seen the Doctor regenerate more than anyone else, and so have we, this shouldn't phase her so much and her role to assure us that this is still the Doctor therefore doesn't work as we know already and she should know better. It got pretty patronising on occasions with digs at people who don't like Capaldi as he's old as if this is somehow a big marjority of fans.

    Paternoster gang - No need for so much development of them on what is Capaldi's first episode. I want him and Clara not unecessary scenes of Strax (who still is just a walking joke) giving Clara a medical. Also the d/s undertones didn't really sit well with me as a kids show and having the kiss be another kiss of necessity made it feel rather forced. We get that Jenny and Vastra are a thing, and that's brilliant and I believe them but I would hope we were slightly past that point.

    The theme - I like the direction but it's missing the bass, it's too thin and needs that darker edge of the oldest incarnations.

    The phone call at the end - It wasn't needed, I like it but after an entire episode of Capaldi and Clara getting used to him a reminder about the past was somewhat unnecessary. If it was in at all it would have been better near the beginning.

    Murray Gold - Still don't like his music, far too bomastic when something much subtler is called for.

    Positives -

    Dialogue - The mirror's angry, there's no point in us both being cold, attack eyebrows, take five, who invented this room - All good stuff.

    Slower pacing - Felt more like the classic series instead of the 90 miles an hour pace it's been going lately.

    The villian - I actually liked him damn it, he had to be simple for the sake of the episode and as a reverse cybermen he works really nicely. Well acted and the model used for the clockwork inside his head is fantastic.

    Misc - The resturant and scene with the homeless man, both wonderfully acted and written. 'I wear this viel not as a courtesy but as a judgement'. New Tardis. Yay bookshelves. Nice exploration of growing older. Capaldi is great and perfect and wonderful.
 
 
 
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