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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

  • View Poll Results: What did you think about the first storyline of series 9?
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    That was so dumb, I genuinely thought they were going to explore guilt and regret of killing people but then it turned out all you do is simply send them back to earth. Great job. Will the disabled character magically grow their abilities again instead of showing people coping with life?

    "Oh no? Done something wrong with your life? Well let's just hit the undo button, that's the only solution we can think of"
    He gave up his chance to come back & live his happily ever after to atone for the biggest regret of his life. It wasn't just hitting the undo button then back to business as usual. I agree with some of your other complaints but this was one of the moments that I thought actually worked quite well. Obviously in real life you can't do it but that's the joy of fiction. It still showed that he'd give anything to make it right, the only difference was he actually got to make it right at the ultimate price.
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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    I was really hoping this would happen. What a great twist it would be for the Doctor to find out that he has been travelling with his greatest enemy all this time and had no idea. It would mean that the master changing gender actually had some relevance (other than "time lords can change gender now cos moffat said so") and would also explain a number of things about clara like why the tardis hated her (i dont think that was ever explained) as well as missy making sure she and the doctor stayed together.
    This would have been so much better and much cleverer! That's also what I thought was going to happen when I saw Clara saying "Clara Oswald never existed" in the trailer, would have redeemed her Impossible Girl arc as well.
    I'm still waiting for a decent Cybermen story since maybe 'The Next Doctor'. They were again pretty ineffective although on the periphery perhaps because Missy was controlling them (with a bracelet though, bit naff). I did quite like the Cyberzombies though but not so much the Iron Man inspired Cybermen that could fly. Capaldi and Gomez were terrific in their roles.
    The series on the whole was a very, very mixed bag. The only episodes I thought were good were Listen, MOTOE and Flatline (so here's hoping they get Jamie Mathieson writing more episodes). The two part finale was okay though could have been amazing, likewise with the opening episode. Time Heist was also okay but the other episodes were poor. Hopefully next series is more consistent and has more two parters.
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    (Original post by Hugs31)
    This would have been so much better and much cleverer! That's also what I thought was going to happen when I saw Clara saying "Clara Oswald never existed" in the trailer, would have redeemed her Impossible Girl arc as well.
    I'm still waiting for a decent Cybermen story since maybe 'The Next Doctor'. They were again pretty ineffective although on the periphery perhaps because Missy was controlling them (with a bracelet though, bit naff). I did quite like the Cyberzombies though but not so much the Iron Man inspired Cybermen that could fly. Capaldi and Gomez were terrific in their roles.
    The series on the whole was a very, very mixed bag. The only episodes I thought were good were Listen, MOTOE and Flatline (so here's hoping they get Jamie Mathieson writing more episodes). The two part finale was okay though could have been amazing, likewise with the opening episode. Time Heist was also okay but the other episodes were poor. Hopefully next series is more consistent and has more two parters.
    Yeah this is exactly what made me think that too!
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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    Yeah this is exactly what made me think that too!
    I thought that she was gonna be revealed as The Master, I dunno how they'd make that work but I was hoping that after all this time the Doctor had been travelling with him. But no. Clara ended up being the most forgettable companions of the modern incarnation of DW
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    I'm fairly sure the 'Clara never existed' bit was mainly put in so they could use it in a trailer. But then I'm a cynic.
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    (Original post by somemightsay888)
    I thought that she was gonna be revealed as The Master, I dunno how they'd make that work but I was hoping that after all this time the Doctor had been travelling with him. But no. Clara ended up being the most forgettable companions of the modern incarnation of DW
    Yeah I haven't really figured out how it would work for her to be The Master and what Missy's plan would have been in that situation.

    I suppose the master could have travelled back in time to make his (or her, i guess) younger self think she was human (maybe using the fobwatch thingy from before) and then make sure Clara and The Doctor stayed together in order to gain the doctor's trust. If an arc was implemented from the beginning of the series that the doctor held some kind of information or object that was key to the master's latest plan for taking over the world then this would work.

    Not sure about paradoxes and stuff like that but I'm sure a real doctor who writer could work out all that to make a similar story work.


    I'm also disappointed we never got to see The Master's new Tardis.
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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    Yeah I haven't really figured out how it would work for her to be The Master and what Missy's plan would have been in that situation.

    I suppose the master could have travelled back in time to make his (or her, i guess) younger self think she was human (maybe using the fobwatch thingy from before) and then make sure Clara and The Doctor stayed together in order to gain the doctor's trust. If an arc was implemented from the beginning of the series that the doctor held some kind of information or object that was key to the master's latest plan for taking over the world then this would work.

    Not sure about paradoxes and stuff like that but I'm sure a real doctor who writer could work out all that to make a similar story work.


    I'm also disappointed we never got to see The Master's new Tardis.
    Yeah, the Tardis thing was glossed over like an irrelevant detail but I'd have loved to have seen it. Where is it now? What happens to it? I have a nasty feeling that in the future UNIT will have used the technology inside it and screwed up something, some kind of cheap story like that.

    The Brigadier killing the Master at the end was cheap too, it completed the cliche happily ever after
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    What the hell did I just watch? What was the point of the episode if the Doctor and the Master are going to end up together at the end and she hands him power over the cybermen?

    Um...that was Missy's plan...what's the point of any episode if something happens at the end. This is very similar to John Simm's Master where he really wanted to see that the Doctor wasn't that different to him.

    What was the point of getting on the plane if it gets destroyed a second later? Why try and kill the Doctor if the whole point is giving him an army? Was he supposed to die?

    Oh...so they should have stayed on the plane the whole time? Whats the point of going to one place if they just go to another place later? They were on the plane for a good portion of the episode, no less than they were in other locations. Missy was playing with the doctor, she knows he could survive.

    Also why have a metal cyberman grow from nothing using the smallest piece of dna? What happens to disembodied arms? Does that become a cyberman as well? Does this also mean that factories are henceforth negated for making cybermen?

    To be fair, there are organisms who can do this and regenerate their whole body after being cut up. Have to admit, I didn't really like this idea.

    Why say you've found Galifrey and then have the coordinates not lead there? Did she lie? But you said she didn't lie?

    Yes...she lied, it was rather obvious from the Doctor's reaction that she lied, not everything has to be spoonfed to understand.

    Also, who actually remembered the master giving Clara a phone number or anything? Why did any of this matter? Most of this episode seemed to be people standing there and doing nothing nor advancing any plot at all.

    Many remembered, I know I did, and if you didn't then that's why there was a flashback. This mattered because this is what caused Clara to meet the doctor. Why does Doctor Who have to be all action sequences? Some mature, chilling talking is just as effective, or emotional.

    Did missy die at the end? Did she teleport for no reason? But what did the Lethbridge Stewart do then? Did he fire an orgasm laser at her?

    Who knows...that's the point. She probably did teleport but we don't know. This is reminiscent of old Doctor Who where the master died every single time and still came back. The Brigadier did fire...if it actually hit her or not we don't know, considering the light he fired was blue and her teleport, as seen in the episode, is blue.

    It's just so dumb. This is what happens when you write stories about the main characters who don't reveal anything at all. Literally everything in this story is told through exposition then it tries to fake out the audience by going "ha ha fooled you, my exposition wasn't true ha ha ha".

    I don't really understand you here...

    I hate Moffatt. He can't write for crap any more. He can script an pre-established Sherlock Holmes story but he can't write properly.

    I'm not a Moffat fan particularly since he took over as head writer but I think he's done some great episodes recently (50th anniversary, listen and this two parter). I enjoyed it

    Plus, that ending mid credits was so stupid it's like watching a Cbeebies show, jangling keys in the face of stupid children that find it entertaining.

    To be fair, it was a fun little scene for the kids getting ready for Christmas, especially after the rather dark stories recently. It's not that different to David Tennant's little series epilogues.


    That was so dumb, I genuinely thought they were going to explore guilt and regret of killing people but then it turned out all you do is simply send them back to earth. Great job. Will the disabled character magically grow their abilities again instead of showing people coping with life?

    It did explore that, the whole series has explored whether the doctor is a good man and what happens when you travel with him... Clara has really been changed by him. The dead (bar one) weren't sent back to earth...they died in the end, no return.

    "Oh no? Done something wrong with your life? Well let's just hit the undo button, that's the only solution we can think of"

    Where was the undo button in this episode?

    Doesn't help Danny is a complete idiot for working with the Doctor instead using his common sense and punch him in the face for being a complete idiot about him and being pointlessly insensitive.

    Danny didn't work with the doctor, he spent a good amount of episodes showing Clara what sort of man he is...very clearly not really liking the doctor.
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    (Original post by Munrot07)
    Um...that was Missy's plan...what's the point of any episode if something happens at the end. This is very similar to John Simm's Master where he really wanted to see that the Doctor wasn't that different to him.

    Well the previous episode ended with the doctor and missy together so why not give him the device then? They went through capturing her, getting on a plane, have the plane blown up by the same person who intended the Doctor to not die and get control of the army. Then they go to the graveyard. The only difference is Danny and Clara is there.


    Oh...so they should have stayed on the plane the whole time? Whats the point of going to one place if they just go to another place later? They were on the plane for a good portion of the episode, no less than they were in other locations. Missy was playing with the doctor, she knows he could survive.

    Then this is just stupid. Getting on the plane added nothing other than filler. What was the point of making him president? What was the point of fangirl who I'd already forgotten about? Why knock missy out and then make her concious again if the Doctor needed another drug to recover from the same drug? Playing the Doctor? Why delay giving him an army?


    Yes...she lied, it was rather obvious from the Doctor's reaction that she lied, not everything has to be spoonfed to understand.

    They showed the view from the doorway. Imagine if the TARDIS was facing away from the planet. It was not clear what was going on, especially how the narrative seemed to hype up that this time the master was being different when really it had no pay off at all. At least show us there's nothing there rather than just a limited view of empty space with no room for questions like 'you sure it's not behind you?'


    Many remembered, I know I did, and if you didn't then that's why there was a flashback. This mattered because this is what caused Clara to meet the doctor. Why does Doctor Who have to be all action sequences? Some mature, chilling talking is just as effective, or emotional.

    What was the point of missy hooking those two up? It had no bearing on the episode at all

    Just because something is dialogue that does not automatically make it mature. So much of it was talking without actually saying anything at all. I never said I wanted action sequences. Being an action sequence does not make something exciting just because the makers were willing the audience to be excited, like with the jump out of the plane it didn't feel right at all. The music was completely off compared to the tone of the narrative at that point. Dialogue refused to advance the plot and people took so long to do something.


    Who knows...that's the point. She probably did teleport but we don't know. This is reminiscent of old Doctor Who where the master died every single time and still came back. The Brigadier did fire...if it actually hit her or not we don't know, considering the light he fired was blue and her teleport, as seen in the episode, is blue.

    Well a laser hits her from the side. I don't know why they have to disintegrate though, then everyone looks round and like a child with ADHD they completely forget what happened as the writers attempt to distract whichever demographic this was aimed at with the random character who vanished earlier and wasn't addressed but people were surely surprised she died until she was used to distract from what happened to missy


    I don't really understand you here...

    They quite clearly hyped up that missy wasn't lying about Galifrey and then the writer is like "aha fooled you it wasn't there". I honestly had no idea why he was suddenly believing her out of nowhere it seemed so out of character.


    I'm not a Moffat fan particularly since he took over as head writer but I think he's done some great episodes recently (50th anniversary, listen and this two parter). I enjoyed it

    Listen was okay, 50th was good. He can write episodes but as a head writer it seems like a mess then he does "series arcs"(aka a recurring mcguffin thrown at the end of each episode of a series which will related to the finale) very poorly. I'm still mad about the whole hyped "oh no the Doctor's going to inevitably die and it will be impossible to change it" arc in the sixth series which was explained by the magic robot which turns into anything and then acts like he fooled us when really it was a deus ex machina.


    To be fair, it was a fun little scene for the kids getting ready for Christmas, especially after the rather dark stories recently. It's not that different to David Tennant's little series epilogues.

    Well that's just another example of tone bipolar. First they end with a solumn tone, then it's 'la la la la la I'm all happy la la! Oh kids, how could you be so stupid to think the episode was over because the credits came up' nonsense. Oh, it's like with David Tennant is it? Fourth wall dialogue? 'We can't end it there, gotta shoehorn in the Christmas special character' They literally say this.


    Where was the undo button in this episode?

    In the form of that bracelet? Which allowed people to come back from the dead? But in the series only had missy use it to go into the matrix but apparently either everyone's still dead in there or it literally allows people to come back from the afterlife in physical form and, for no reason, it can only be used once. Damn it sounds so stupid describing it.


    Danny didn't work with the doctor, he spent a good amount of episodes showing Clara what sort of man he is...very clearly not really liking the doctor.

    He was quite happy to stay around him. It makes no sense why anyone would and also why the Doctor has it in for him for no reason. Maybe if they'd had Danny on an adventure and he messes up and this causes the Doctor to hate him, but there's no reason at all in this case.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Please read my replies
    I agree with everything you just said, never seen a reply that so comprehensively addresses all the bull**** in the episode.

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    Awful episode, and a total waste of Sanjeev Bhaskar. Don't know why he even did it.
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    Well the previous episode ended with the doctor and missy together so why not give him the device then? They went through capturing her, getting on a plane, have the plane blown up by the same person who intended the Doctor to not die and get control of the army. Then they go to the graveyard. The only difference is Danny and Clara is there.


    At that point there was no army and it’s the master, the master has always liked playing with the doctor. She had no control over being put on the plane, she wanted to destroy the plane and had some “fun” with the doctor in the mean time, it’s just the character, that’s what that character likes to do.



    Then this is just stupid. Getting on the plane added nothing other than filler. What was the point of making him president? What was the point of fangirl who I'd already forgotten about? Why knock missy out and then make her concious again if the Doctor needed another drug to recover from the same drug? Playing the Doctor? Why delay giving him an army?

    It was part of the story, I don’t see why you find this part more stupid than any other part, this is the part where we find out the plan (mostly) and get to see the ruthless side of Missy. The point of Osgood was to have Missy kill a kind character that is very popular (at least to most people), I know all the people I watched it with went “NO” when she died. It is a standard plot technique to show someone is evil, make them kill a popular character. (Not the best plot technique but hey, it did its job). Again, she wanted to have some fun, do you always get straight to the point without having a bit of fun first?


    They showed the view from the doorway. Imagine if the TARDIS was facing away from the planet. It was not clear what was going on, especially how the narrative seemed to hype up that this time the master was being different when really it had no pay off at all. At least show us there's nothing there rather than just a limited view of empty space with no room for questions like 'you sure it's not behind you?'

    They did show the tardis in space from the outside too but granted they could have shown from all angels…I don’t think there was much need for that, if you just think about it, it was pretty obvious it was a lie. It think it was good, it showed the doctors rage once more and it was a nice sad moment, of all the things in the world the doctor still hasn’t found his planet, he had his hopes up, just like we did, and they were destroyed. As I said, I personally liked it


    What was the point of missy hooking those two up? It had no bearing on the episode at all

    It had quite a big part…it was even explained, clara was a strong, controlling woman. Missy knew that if someone Clara cared about died she would get the doctor to go to this location, she chose the exact person she needed to get the doctor to her.



    Just because something is dialogue that does not automatically make it mature. So much of it was talking without actually saying anything at all. I never said I wanted action sequences. Being an action sequence does not make something exciting just because the makers were willing the audience to be excited, like with the jump out of the plane it didn't feel right at all. The music was completely off compared to the tone of the narrative at that point. Dialogue refused to advance the plot and people took so long to do something.


    I never said it was…though I think over the last two episodes weve had some mature dialogue. What do you think were the parts where there was nothing being said?

    Well a laser hits her from the side. I don't know why they have to disintegrate though, then everyone looks round and like a child with ADHD they completely forget what happened as the writers attempt to distract whichever demographic this was aimed at with the random character who vanished earlier and wasn't addressed but people were surely surprised she died until she was used to distract from what happened to missy


    But did a laser hit her? As I said, this is a classic era doctor who thing where the master died and he returns the next episode having “escaped”, to hate that idea is not moffats fault but a classic doctor who thing that happens.

    They quite clearly hyped up that missy wasn't lying about Galifrey and then the writer is like "aha fooled you it wasn't there". I honestly had no idea why he was suddenly believing her out of nowhere it seemed so out of character.

    The whole point was, is she lying about gallifrey? I refer to my early comment about it :P



    Listen was okay, 50th was good. He can write episodes but as a head writer it seems like a mess then he does "series arcs"(aka a recurring mcguffin thrown at the end of each episode of a series which will related to the finale) very poorly. I'm still mad about the whole hyped "oh no the Doctor's going to inevitably die and it will be impossible to change it" arc in the sixth series which was explained by the magic robot which turns into anything and then acts like he fooled us when really it was a deus ex machina.

    Again, moffat can be really crap with overall series arcs and some of Matt Smith’s ones were awful…I personally liked this one and thought it was a good finale (Though I saw no need in Missy being the master). That did add nothing at all and the story could have happened exactly the same with missy being any other timelord at all…it’s just moffat being determined to add gender change into time lord lore.


    Well that's just another example of tone bipolar. First they end with a solumn tone, then it's 'la la la la la I'm all happy la la! Oh kids, how could you be so stupid to think the episode was over because the credits came up' nonsense. Oh, it's like with David Tennant is it? Fourth wall dialogue? 'We can't end it there, gotta shoehorn in the Christmas special character' They literally say this.


    Again, it may have changed the tone but it was a little bit for the kids :P



    In the form of that bracelet? Which allowed people to come back from the dead? But in the series only had missy use it to go into the matrix but apparently either everyone's still dead in there or it literally allows people to come back from the afterlife in physical form and, for no reason, it can only be used once. Damn it sounds so stupid describing it.

    It wasn’t really a reset button was it? It allowed one person to teleport…that’s it. Everyone else is just going to die and that’s it. It was stated that it was basically the end for them all now. The bracelet had only enough power for one journey…ok it could have been explained (and I can already think of some good reasons as to the power thing he could have added in).


    He was quite happy to stay around him. It makes no sense why anyone would and also why the Doctor has it in for him for no reason. Maybe if they'd had Danny on an adventure and he messes up and this causes the Doctor to hate him, but there's no reason at all in this case.

    He wasn’t really that happy…maybe before he knew who the doctor was but when he did find out he never seemed happy with the doctor and spent loads of times trying to show clara that the doctor was bad. The doctor does that…he was the same with micky originally too. Perhaps the doctors mildly racist to black men? (I joke). The doctor definitely doesn’t hate Danny…he acted like Danny wasn’t worthy of Clara or time travelling, for whatever reasons there were for that way of thinking. Then again, the doctor never really has liked soldiers
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    (Original post by Yawn!)
    Awful episode, and a total waste of Sanjeev Bhaskar. Don't know why he even did it.
    omg it really was a waste of him! :sigh:
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    (Original post by cupcakes87)
    omg it really was a waste of him! :sigh:
    He was there for a very cheap, flat joke and then got pulled out of a plane, absolutely awful! Probably only did it for the healthy paycheck or to make it known the Cybermen and Master were targeting all ethnic groups!:erm:
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    Been watching season 3 a lot recently, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks and the John Simm episodes are fantastic. For me the best-written season so far and despite the abuse Martha gets, I think the post-Rose dynamic works really well.
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    (Original post by St. Brynjar)
    Been watching season 3 a lot recently, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks and the John Simm episodes are fantastic. For me the best-written season so far and despite the abuse Martha gets, I think the post-Rose dynamic works really well.
    I remember I really liked Martha; wasn't aware she was unpopular. (I was about 10/11 at the time it aired so never really saw anyone's opinions about Doctor Who online)

    Blink is an incredible episode. It is the best "non-Doctor" episode by a country mile. & probably the second scariest episode after The Empty Child. Shame they sort of ruined the Weeping Angels in subsequent episodes.
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    Thoughts on Christmas trailer?

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    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    Thoughts on Christmas trailer?

    I think it's an awful idea. It's too silly for adults to like and it'll ruin the Santa myth for kids.
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    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    Thoughts on Christmas trailer?

    I think that actually looks really good! Funny jokes, and peaks my interest.

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    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    Thoughts on Christmas trailer?

    I don't think I can imagine that being a good episode, but the Christmas episodes are usually fluff anyway, so I'll watch it and be jolly :p:
 
 
 
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