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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

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    Question about that episode:

    We're led to believe that this is the last time that the Doctor and River see each other (before the Library). However...

    (Original post by River, Silence in the Library)

    As she hooks herself up: Funny thing is, this means you've always known how I was going to die. All the time we've been together, you knew I was coming here. The last time I saw you, the real you — the future you, I mean — you turned up on my doorstep, with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the singing towers. Oh, what a night that was! The towers sang and you cried. You wouldn't tell me why, but I suppose you knew it was time. My time. Time to come to the Library. You even gave me your screwdriver; that should've been a clue. [The Doctor tries unsuccessfully to reach their sonic screwdrivers] There's nothing you can do.
    Source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/River_Song

    So, erm... how do they explain this then?

    To watch the clip again:

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    (Original post by snowyowl)
    Question about that episode:

    We're led to believe that this is the last time that the Doctor and River see each other (before the Library). However...



    Source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/River_Song

    So, erm... how do they explain this then?

    To watch the clip again:

    No, this isn't before the library, it's after. The River in this episode is in the computer on the Library planet.

    We saw them go to the Singing Towers of Darillium in a mini episode.
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    (Original post by kalios)
    Do you guys think that I could watch the final episode (and maybe the one before), and still understand it? I haven't watched any DW this series but kind of want to see what all the excitement is about for the finale. I've watched the previous series so I understand everything about the Doctor's name, but will I get most of it?
    Yeah, a lot of the excitement was around stuff you'd understand, but I think you should watch more of series 7 (Asylum of the Daleks and ****) to get a better feel for the wonder that is Oswin Oswald. Half of the brilliance of this episode was just how fantastically Matt Smith and JLC performed, quite genuinely I thought that this episode was JLC's best performance.
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    He also needs to work a way to travel from Trenzalore to Victorian London because Strax, Jenny and Vastra traveled back in the Tardis.I wonder how he is going to get the Tardis back?
    No - he told Vasta etc to take the Tardis back if he didn't return. Presumably he'll just manage to get out of his timestream, so they don't need to take the Tardis.
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    (Original post by Rascacielos)
    The obvious explanation is that he'll just find the right part of his timeline (i.e. Victorian London) and just walk back into it, battling a few old enemies on the way.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Or fly back in Ten's Tardis.


    I hope to God that I'm wrong though.

    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Well, Moffat sometimes does write good storylines. He does leave a lot of clues. Lets hope something surprising happens. If we expect too much we'll be left disappointed
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    (Original post by Feefifofum)
    No, this isn't before the library, it's after. The River in this episode is in the computer on the Library planet.

    We saw them go to the Singing Towers of Darillium in a mini episode.
    Is it? Was that explained in the episode?

    Edit: I don't watch mini-episodes, perhaps it's my own fault I didn't know then did it happen in the episode just as River described it?
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    i was loving it right up to the last few seconds and then i was just sorely disappointed.
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    (Original post by snowyowl)
    Is it? Was that explained in the episode?

    Edit: I don't watch mini-episodes, perhaps it's my own fault I didn't know then did it happen in the episode just as River described it?
    Yeah, there were loads of references to the fact that it wasn't 'real' River - it was the River that died in the Library and was saved to CAL. There was the stuff about River being dead, about the Doctor having made a backup, and so on.

    We didn't actually see it in the mini-sode, but we saw the Doctor and River about to head there. It's hard to explain, you should just watch it! :p: It was in 'Last Night'.
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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    Perhaps, but as a prophetic statement, then it's accurate due to the question being answered when it was asked.



    Not necessarily. There's nothing to say that Clara hears anything that River doesn't want her to. There's the suggestion that the Doctor heard River say his name, though.
    Yeah but earlier in the episode, Clara started remembering what happened when the TARDIS' engine exploded and when The Doctor asked her questions about who she really is - that's how she realised she's the 'Impossible Girl'. In that episode, she also found out The Doctor's real name so she may have remembered it.
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    I have a question. When did River find out the Doctor's name? It's mentioned that she knows it in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and again in Name of the Doctor. We know it wasn't in the Wedding of River Song, because he said 'Look into my eye' instead. So when was it? Did they get properly married on some other unmentioned occasion?

    Also, am I the only one who thinks that the John Hurt Doctor might be something more complicated than just the one who ended the Time War? That theory makes sense of course, but it seems so obvious, and it's not in any way a secret...
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    There's only one thing that bugs me, the prophecy states "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."

    I somewhat agree that John Hurt is the 9th Doctor, however, that would make Matt Smith's Doctor the 12th making the prophecy null and void.
    Unless The Doctor made the prophecy himself because he doesn't the 9th version of himself to be the Doctor at all. =l
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    (Original post by Feefifofum)
    Yeah, there were loads of references to the fact that it wasn't 'real' River - it was the River that died in the Library and was saved to CAL. There was the stuff about River being dead, about the Doctor having made a backup, and so on.

    We didn't actually see it in the mini-sode, but we saw the Doctor and River about to head there. It's hard to explain, you should just watch it! :p: It was in 'Last Night'.
    Aha, I must have missed it then - I was too busy at the beginning trying to explain to my boyfriend who River was (he's only been watching since the snowmen at Christmas! :eek3:)

    I'll google it
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    (Original post by Scienceisgood)
    There's only one thing that bugs me, the prophecy states "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."

    I somewhat agree that John Hurt is the 9th Doctor, however, that would make Matt Smith's Doctor the 12th making the prophecy null and void.
    Unless The Doctor made the prophecy himself because he doesn't the 9th version of himself to be the Doctor at all. =l
    No no - John Hurt's character is the same person, but isn't called 'The Doctor', because the Time Lords take their own names (eg. the conversation between the Master and the Doctor in the Sound of Drums episodes), and that version of him did something so terrible that he can't be called Doctor. So he's the same character, but not called the Doctor. That means that Matt Smith is the 12th incarnation, but only the 11th Doctor.

    That prophecy has been bugging me too, but for a different reason. What was all that 'when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer' stuff about? I mean, the creature that answered the question was not living, it was the dead River, but the Doctor did fail to answer! And why could he not speak falsely? Was any of this explained at all and did I just miss it?
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    (Original post by snowyowl)
    Aha, I must have missed it then - I was too busy at the beginning trying to explain to my boyfriend who River was (he's only been watching since the snowmen at Christmas! :eek3:)

    I'll google it
    Fair enough! :p:

    After a quick Google it's actually 2 linked mini-sodes - First Night and Last Night.
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    (Original post by Feefifofum)
    That prophecy has been bugging me too, but for a different reason. What was all that 'when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer' stuff about? I mean, the creature that answered the question was not living, it was the dead River, but the Doctor did fail to answer! And why could he not speak falsely? Was any of this explained at all and did I just miss it?
    Actually, I think when the Doctor timelocked the Time War, he referred to himself as his actual name who did it, hence the reason why "The Doctor" was in that book Clara read and his real name only had a TINY reference. It was his actual name so he wouldn't have to carry the guilt of what he did with him whenever he was referred to as "The Doctor".

    So, he didn't lie, he just didn't refer to himself as the The Doctor or even see himself as the Doctor during the events which timelocked the Time War hence why he failed to answer.
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    Just caught the last couple of minutes again.

    Leaning more and more to the '9th incarnation' theory. Hurt is a great actor, and when he turns at the end of the episode he looks distressed/sad/traumatised rather than 'bad'.

    Someone I know has suggested that the Doctor before Hartnell was a bit of a tyrant, and Hurt is the last embodiment of this man. The Doctor, first embodies in Hartnell, then travels the galaxy to remedy all the wrong he did.

    But I'm not sure I buy this. 6 months is a long time to wait!
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    Just caught the last couple of minutes again.

    Leaning more and more to the '9th incarnation' theory. Hurt is a great actor, and when he turns at the end of the episode he looks distressed/sad/traumatised rather than 'bad'.

    Someone I know has suggested that the Doctor before Hartnell was a bit of a tyrant, and Hurt is the last embodiment of this man. The Doctor, first embodies in Hartnell, then travels the galaxy to remedy all the wrong he did.

    But I'm not sure I buy this. 6 months is a long time to wait!
    Hopefully it will be worth it, although, I REALLY wanted Jack to come back! DX
    No Torchwood any more and he hasn't appeared in AGES!
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    (Original post by chernid)
    For me, most of Series 6 and most of Series 7 I found quite bad. However, after "The Crimson Horror" I actually started to like it again, I don't know why.

    Anyway, I thought the finale was incredible, and by the end I was actually really excited about the Anniversary special (as beforehand I was thinking of ways that Moffat could ruin David Tennant's Doctor for me).

    I was surprised that Moffat didn't provide an anti-climax to the arch including the question and Trenzalore stuff, which I'm happy about, and the explanation and reasoning behind it was coherent and simple enough to get, while still leaving the audience to think about what happened etc.

    I think I saw, in the huge TARDIS tomb, the crack in the window (that the Doctor caused early in the episode). Surely this means that for every other episode of Doctor Who in the future the TARDIS has to have a crack in the window?
    Ah, no. Since the Doctor went into his own time stream he can manipulate events as such that he does not die on Trenzalore. The window can be repaired.
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    (Original post by Scienceisgood)
    Hopefully it will be worth it, although, I REALLY wanted Jack to come back! DX
    No Torchwood any more and he hasn't appeared in AGES!
    I thought Torchwood was pretty awful.

    I mean the biggest problem that show had was Jack was immortal, but apart from that it felt like scooby doo with guns and sex. A teenage boys idea of maturity.

    After the mess that was miracle day I would be perfectly happy if they never made another torch wood story or Jack never had another Doctor Who appearance.
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    (Original post by Politics Student)
    I thought Torchwood was pretty awful.

    I mean the biggest problem that show had was Jack was immortal, but apart from that it felt like scooby doo with guns and sex. A teenage boys idea of maturity.

    After the mess that was miracle day I would be perfectly happy if they never made another torch wood story or Jack never had another Doctor Who appearance.
    To be honest after the abomination that was miracle day I'd be inclined to agree (though I did like most of the Torchwood episodes before that).

    It's a shame really - Torchwood, as a concept, isn't bad I think.
 
 
 
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