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In the view of the people of England, Scotland and Wales should Northern Ireland go? Watch

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    I didn't have enough space for the title so what I mean by go is leave the UK. Leave religion aside no crap like that. I myself am from Northern Ireland I'm not Unionist or Nationalist I couldn't care if we leave or stay in my opinion because I just want the country to stay at peace so what is your opinion should we leave or should we stay.
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    Northern Ireland should stay part of the UK, "We're stronger together" and all that. (Welsh perspective)


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    I don't have a strong view, but I think it'd be a shame to split. More concerned about peace there though.
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    I don't have a strong opinion either way. Generally I don't think countries should split up, but in this case we're talking about part of the UK becoming part of Ireland. So it's not the case that there would be a new independent country.
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    No.
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    Not unless the people of Northern Ireland want to.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    I don't have a strong opinion either way. Generally I don't think countries should split up, but in this case we're talking about part of the UK becoming part of Ireland. So it's not the case that there would be a new independent country.
    The question is- is the UK a "country". Many would say no.
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    (Original post by TomN97)
    I didn't have enough space for the title so what I mean by go is leave the UK. Leave religion aside no crap like that. I myself am from Northern Ireland I'm not Unionist or Nationalist I couldn't care if we leave or stay in my opinion because I just want the country to stay at peace so what is your opinion should we leave or should we stay.
    I am not living in Northern Ireland so my opinion should not matter. If the people of Northern Ireland wanted to then they should, if they don't... then they shouldn't.

    If I did live in NI I'd have to ask myself "do I want to risk the [relative] peacefulness for it?"
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    The question is- is the UK a "country". Many would say no.
    They might say that, but there's no logical reason to not count the UK as a country. The fact that we also call the UK's constituent parts countries is really just a quirk of language. The UK is a country just like any other.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    They might say that, but there's no logical reason to not count the UK as a country. The fact that we also call the UK's constituent parts countries is really just a quirk of language. The UK is a country just like any other.
    I don't know.
    Without a doubt the United Kingdom is a sovereign state and that is where I come from. However I have never really found it as a country.

    Just like I've never found my nationality to be a "United Kingdom-er" or "British". Certainly it is my citizenship but nationality, meh- I don't think so.

    I find the UK to be a very strange place. You have the South of England on one side then you have Wales, NI, Scotland and N.England on the other and both have totally different views.
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    Whatever the people of Northern Island want to happen, should happen.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    I don't know.
    Without a doubt the United Kingdom is a sovereign state and that is where I come from. However I have never really found it as a country.

    Just like I've never found my nationality to be a "United Kingdom-er" or "British". Certainly it is my citizenship but nationality, meh- I don't think so.

    I find the UK to be a very strange place. You have the South of England on one side then you have Wales, NI, Scotland and N.England on the other and both have totally different views.
    In that respect I really doubt it's particularly different to a lot of other countries out there. For example some countries (like India) have completely different languages in different parts of the country. There are way more diverse countries out there than the UK. The differences between the different parts of the UK are probably pretty minor compared to the differences between the different parts of say Indonesia.

    Maybe you don't "feel" like it's a country. But the reality is that it is a country in any meaningful political sense. You say the UK is a sovereign state, but can you name any other sovereign states that you don't consider to be a country? I find most people who don't consider the UK to be a country are actually applying different standards to the UK than they do the rest of the world.
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    It's not for anyone to decide other than the people who live in NI. As they've lived there long enough now, it doesn't matter whether they should or should not have started living there. All that matters is that they are living there now.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    You say the UK is a sovereign state, but can you name any other sovereign states that you don't consider to be a country? I find most people who don't consider the UK to be a country are actually applying different standards to the UK than they do the rest of the world.
    Republic of China - the PRC is the sovereign state but you can't say it is one country.

    Flanders- Belgium is the sovereign state.

    Basque country - Spain is the sovereign state.

    Then finally in the days of the USSR - would you say the USSR was a country? Or would you say that it was a Union of different republics?
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Republic of China - the PRC is the sovereign state but you can't say it is one country.

    Flanders- Belgium is the sovereign state.

    Basque country - Spain is the sovereign state.

    Then finally in the days of the USSR - would you say the USSR was a country? Or would you say that it was a Union of different republics?
    But the majority of people would say Belgium and Spain are countries. The China/Taiwan situation is confusing, but it's still not an example of a sovereign state that is not a country. It's a dispute about whether or not they are two countries/sovereign states or one. Notice I asked for sovereign states that are not countries, not countries which are not sovereign states.

    I'll admit the USSR is a bit of an odd one. Although yes, I would say the whole thing counted as a country. So what if it was a union of republics? The USA is a union of states. UAE is a union of Emirates (which are each separate monarchies). Russia now is a union with several republics within it.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Notice I asked for sovereign states that are not countries
    Kingdom of the Netherlands
    Belgium
    United Kingdom
    large areas of "Spain".


    *the thing is it is all politics. I'm sure somebody from the S.East of England would not consider Wales as a country, but a Principality (even though the term Principality was abolished c1500s). Just like Parliament in Madrid are refusing to allow Catalonia to become a separate state.

    *it is also impossible to compare the UK with others as it is different. When Ireland became independent. Did it magically become a country over night? No, it was always a country it just was within a larger state called the UK. The same with Scotland, it is a country but it is a stateless nation. If it becomes independent in 2014 it remains a country, but crucially it becomes a state. The UK doesn't become "less of a country" because of this... as it isn't a country, it is just a state with a collection of countries within it.
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    There's no factual basis for saying whether England or Britain is the country. No-one abroad uses 'country' other than for sovereign states. What makes Scotland a country more than the UK? What makes England more of a country than the UK? What makes the old kingdoms of Strathclyde and Wessex any less of a country than the old kingdoms of England and Scotland?

    It's bull**** at the end of the day. It's just a response to Britain and the British people being called England and the English people due to the small part everywhere else plays in comparison.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Kingdom of the Netherlands
    Belgium
    United Kingdom
    large areas of "Spain".


    *the thing is it is all politics. I'm sure somebody from the S.East of England would not consider Wales as a country, but a Principality (even though the term Principality was abolished c1500s). Just like Parliament in Madrid are refusing to allow Catalonia to become a separate state.

    *it is also impossible to compare the UK with others as it is different. When Ireland became independent. Did it magically become a country over night? No, it was always a country it just was within a larger state called the UK. The same with Scotland, it is a country but it is a stateless nation. If it becomes independent in 2014 it remains a country, but crucially it becomes a state. The UK doesn't become "less of a country" because of this... as it isn't a country, it is just a state with a collection of countries within it.
    So you don't think Belgium and Spain are countries? That's a somewhat unusual view.

    You say it's impossible to compare the UK with others, but that's a very inward looking view. Sure there is no other sovereign state that's exactly the same as the UK, but there are plenty of others which do have some similarities. I don't see how the UK is so fundamentally different to every other country in the world that it shouldn't count as a country.

    And politically speaking, the "countries" of the UK are very different things to a "country" that isn't part of the UK. We call both of them countries, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing, and it doesn't mean the UK can't also be a country. It seems you're using a definition of country that is more cultural than political.

    The problem with the cultural definition is that it's very inward looking. Most people would consider the parts of the UK to be culturally distinct enough to be separate countries, but would consider India to be one country. When I'm sure that each of the states of India are far more culturally distinct than the parts of the UK. So typically doing so shows cultural ignorance of the rest of the world. Thinking that the UK is somehow special because it's made up of 4 "nations", when it's really not that special.
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    I couldn't give a ****.

    England is really makes the UK a world power, and did prior to 1707. Let the Scots have their independence. We English will do OK.
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    (Original post by ilikenamitha)
    I couldn't give a ****.

    England is really makes the UK a world power, and did prior to 1707. Let the Scots have their independence. We English will do OK.
    This thread is about Northern Irish independence, not Scottish.


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