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In the view of the people of England, Scotland and Wales should Northern Ireland go? Watch

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    Nope, I don't want Northern Ireland to leave. As much bother as it may cause, the Northern Irish people contribute to the richness of our British identity and culture.

    I wouldn't dream of supporting the lopping off of any part of our country. Except perhaps Liverpool. Liverpool is ****.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    When Ireland became independent. Did it magically become a country over night? No, it was always a country it just was within a larger state called the UK.
    Ireland, the sovereign state, separated from the United Kingdom in 1922. Its borders were only drawn up in 1920. So the suggestion that it somehow had a pre-existing cultural identity or something of that nature beforehand is bizarre.

    The same with Scotland, it is a country but it is a stateless nation.
    Says you, but it is a completely subjective assessment. I don't think nations exist - and the same is true of many anthropologists. The concept of "nations" existing is a debated theory in social sciences with an even more debated application to the real world. It is not some sort of fact.

    The UK doesn't become "less of a country" because of this... as it isn't a country, it is just a state with a collection of countries within it.
    Every country of any size has groups in it that may be identified by some as "nations". The UK is no different in that regard.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Nope, I don't want Northern Ireland to leave. As much bother as it may cause, the Northern Irish people contribute to the richness of our British identity and culture.
    What British identity?
    When you ask people abroad 'what is Britain' most often than not you'll hear "Royal Family, London, Queen, Red Buses, English Language etc". These are all English things.

    I don't really think there is a British identity - that is why the whole idea of a "British Day" as a Bank Holiday was a disaster.
    Yes there is English, Welsh, Scottish and N.Irish identity but I can't see what is the "British Identity".

    I would however LOVE it if you could tell me how "the Northern Irish people contribute to the richness of our British identity". Really interested in this.


    (Original post by L i b)
    Says you, but it is a completely subjective assessment.
    Well even the International Organisation for Standards says Wales is a country, and I think they know more about it than myself and you.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    What British identity?
    When you ask people abroad 'what is Britain' most often than not you'll hear "Royal Family, London, Queen, Red Buses, English Language etc". These are all English things.
    The royal family isn't just English. If you have any knowledge of the history there then you can see it's as much Scottish as it is English. It is also partly Welsh as Henry Tudor was part Welsh. Of course it's also part German, Dutch, and loads of other things too. But it can't be said to be exclusively English.

    Also London and red buses are London things. If they're not representative of Britain as a whole, then why should they be representative of England as a whole? Like it or not London is the capital city of the UK, as well as being England's capital.
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    (Original post by TomN97)
    I didn't have enough space for the title so what I mean by go is leave the UK. Leave religion aside no crap like that. I myself am from Northern Ireland I'm not Unionist or Nationalist I couldn't care if we leave or stay in my opinion because I just want the country to stay at peace so what is your opinion should we leave or should we stay.
    It's not for us to decide. It's up to the people of Northern Ireland. At the end of the day it will make very little difference to my life.
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    Ireland should only be reunited if both sides were to show majority support for it in a referendum.

    I would campaign strongly for NI to remain under London rule in any referendum, however if the people of Northern Ireland wish to become part of an independent, reunified Ireland, and the people of the Republic of Ireland wish to accept them, then it would be wrong of the UK to stop them.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Well even the International Organisation for Standards says Wales is a country, and I think they know more about it than myself and you.
    He didn't say Wales isn't a country. He said the UK isn't any less of a country because of it.

    Is this the standard you are talking about?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:GB

    That standard relates specifically to the UK (despite having GB in the name).

    The UK as a whole is included in this ISO list of countries:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1

    So by the ISO standards both the UK and it's constituent parts (excluding NI apparently) are countries. But under different sets of standards.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Like it or not London is the capital city of the UK, as well as being England's capital.
    Is it?

    I know there were government announcements declaring Edinburgh a capital and Cardiff a capital.

    Must have missed the announcement saying that London is the capital of the UK.
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    Is it?

    I know there were government announcements declaring Edinburgh a capital and Cardiff a capital.

    Must have missed the announcement saying that London is the capital of the UK.
    It's the capital in the sense that is where the UK government is based. Things like that rarely get officially declared in the UK. Like how there's nothing that says English is the official language.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    It's the capital in the sense that is where the UK government is based. Things like that rarely get officially declared in the UK. Like how there's nothing that says English is the official language.
    I think you'll find that Welsh AND English were given official status in Wales in 2011.

    Unless of course you ignore the fact that Wales is in the UK and just take a London centric approach to everything?
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    I think you'll find that Welsh AND English were given official status in Wales in 2011.

    Unless of course you ignore the fact that Wales is in the UK and just take a London centric approach to everything?
    That means its an official language in Wales. But what about for the rest of the UK? And for the record I hate the way the UK is so London centric. It's even worse for England. The rest of England always seems to get lumped in with London as if its all one big homogenous blob.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by UnderPost)
    When you ask people abroad 'what is Britain' most often than not you'll hear "Royal Family, London, Queen, Red Buses, English Language etc". These are all English things.
    Virtually none of those things are exclusively English. Firstly our Queen is Queen of the United Kingdom. That much is obvious to everyone. Kindly consider that London is the capital city of the UK. It is no less a Welshman's capital than a Cumbrian's.

    The English language too has been may be associated with the Anglic peoples who, let's not forget, settled in parts of Scotland too - but the language is more than that. It is a language without cultural boundaries of any sort now. It is not the exclusive position of one ethnic group.

    This is - with the possible exception of the role of the Monarch - a cultural identity. Primarily what makes most of us British is our civic identity: our common citizenship, our shared national institutions, our
    unified democracy, our unifying around certain political values. You can be a recent immigrant, who still speaks another language at home, eats food from thousands of miles away and who is part of another faith - and still be British.


    I don't really think there is a British identity - that is why the whole idea of a "British Day" as a Bank Holiday was a disaster.
    Yes there is English, Welsh, Scottish and N.Irish identity but I can't see what is the "British Identity".
    Which is an extraordinary stance considering that you've not even justified the existence of these. Anyway, Britain is a sovereign state. Together with having the cultural element to its identity, it has a civic element which Englishness, Welshness etc lacks.

    Many states have problems defining a national holiday, particularly where it seems that it is being artificially put in place. In Malta, for example, there are five main holidays which are ignored or celebrated largely based on politics or cultural leanings towards Britain or Italy. Despite trying for years and years, there is not a single day - or even two days - they can agree on.

    Equally within the UK, I have seen attempts to mark St Andrew's Day be attempted, including an Act of the Scottish Parliament which made it kinda a bank holiday (although that's pretty much irrelevant these days). In all cases, it's been met with utter apathy by the public quite simply because there's no real basis for it. Whether we're talking about this or a British national holiday, my response will be the same: I don't feel the need to emphasise my identities any further.

    I would however LOVE it if you could tell me how "the Northern Irish people contribute to the richness of our British identity". Really interested in this.
    Every individual, every culture, every language which becomes part of our community enriches us. It exposes us to new ideas, diversifies our pool of talent and increases our tolerance of difference. I cannot imagine what Britain would have been like without the contribution of some of our people from Northern Ireland (and, earlier, all of Ireland). Whether we're talking about the Duke of Wellington or Roy Walker, or even the average man on the street, without them it would not be the Britain I know, and a much poorer place for it.
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    Northern Ireland should do whatever is in their best interests.
 
 
 
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