Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Do you support the benefit changes that come into force from today? (poll) Watch

  • View Poll Results: Do you support the benefit changes that come into force from today?
    They don't go far enough, but yes
    23.53%
    They are adequate and I support them
    14.71%
    They are acceptable/necessary, but I do not 'like' them
    5.88%
    I don't care one way or the other
    0
    0%
    We need to cut welfare spending, but these cuts go too far
    26.47%
    There is no need to cut spending on welfare at all, so I do not support them
    29.41%

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As above, really.

    I don't think they go nearly far enough to address the cataclysm our public finances face.

    Even going by the amount the government is willing to admit to being in debt by, we're looking at well over £1tn of debt.

    When you consider, more intellectually honestly, the government's unfunded liabilities including pensions, our debt soars to an utterly insurmountable £5tn+



    These benefit changes do practically nothing to address the out-of-control spending and spiraling debt we are mired in - they are far too small to have any impact - we must do far more than trim the fat. We need to completely rethink the role of government in society, which I hold is no more than to preserve the peace. This means providing courts, the police, and the military. There is no role for government, in my view, in anything else. It has proven that it cannot be responsible. It has utterly bankrupted itself out of 'kindness'; in attempting to be altruistic, it has spent more than any society can afford.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    As above, really.

    I don't think they go nearly far enough to address the cataclysm our public finances face.

    Even going by the amount the government is willing to admit to being in debt by, we're looking at well over £1tn of debt.

    When you consider, more intellectually honestly, the government's unfunded liabilities including pensions, our debt soars to an utterly insurmountable £5tn+



    These benefit changes do practically nothing to address the out-of-control spending and spiraling debt we are mired in - they are far too small to have any impact - we must do far more than trim the fat. We need to completely rethink the role of government in society, which I hold is no more than to preserve the peace. This means providing courts, the police, and the military. There is no role for government, in my view, in anything else. It has proven that it cannot be responsible. It has utterly bankrupted itself out of 'kindness'; in attempting to be altruistic, it has spent more than any society can afford.
    This government has been disappointing in some ways
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    No I do not support them removing funding from the poorest people, yet again. Benefits are not just for people who don't work, the majority of the bill is housing benefit which people get who do work and all of that obscene amount of money goes straight to rich land lords. Stop the rise in rent, make a basic housing cost to stop greedy land lord charging ridiculous amounts of money for the poorest people's housing.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alice.181)
    No I do not support them removing funding from the poorest people, yet again. Benefits are not just for people who don't work, the majority of the bill is housing benefit which people get who do work and all of that obscene amount of money goes straight to rich land lords. Stop the rise in rent, make a basic housing cost to stop greedy land lord charging ridiculous amounts of money for the poorest people's housing.
    I couldn't agree more with you! What the government seems to care about now is political issues rather than economic issues! If they are really wanting the country to perform well economically, don't cut benefits, lower corporation tax! You can't save your way out of trouble!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maple1736)
    I couldn't agree more with you! What the government seems to care about now is political issues rather than economic issues! If they are really wanting the country to perform well economically, don't cut benefits, lower corporation tax! You can't save your way out of trouble!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You pay your debts to get out of trouble! Not borrow more and more till you end up like Greece!
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    You pay your debts to get out of trouble! Not borrow more and more till you end up like Greece!
    I agree with you, but cutting benefit will never solve the problem because its effect on debt reduction is limited. The country might be better to raise more tax rather than cutting cost. The current climate might need something to stimulate so that the country can get out of trouble. Btw I never suggested to borrow more as I fully understand the long term impact it will cause! Lower corporation tax might be one way to stimulate as it should cause series of chain effects such as increase in income tax revenue for the government to pay off the debt! I am not saying this will work 100% but that's one way it might work, no one will be sure any policies will work until it is fully in operation!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maple1736)
    I agree with you, but cutting benefit will never solve the problem because its effect on debt reduction is limited. The country might be better to raise more tax rather than cutting cost. The current climate might need something to stimulate so that the country can get out of trouble. Btw I never suggested to borrow more as I fully understand the long term impact it will cause! Lower corporation tax might be one way to stimulate as it should cause series of chain effects such as increase in income tax revenue for the government to pay off the debt! I am not saying this will work 100% but that's one way it might work, no one will be sure any policies will work until it is fully in operation!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lower VAT would be much better than lowering corporation tax even further!

    Reducing welfare and increasing employment is fair
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    Lower VAT would be much better than lowering corporation tax even further!

    Reducing welfare and increasing employment is fair
    Tbh, lower VAT won't do much better as its chain effects on other things like employment is ambiguous, it's not going to have a major impact. Currently UK is very unattractive in terms of corporation tax compared to other countries and lack of foreign investment will certainly not be a good thing especially in the long-term! Look at RoI, they lower the CT a few years ago and lost about 3% of total fax revenue, but doubled income tax! However, bad time will continue for the foreseeable future if ppl's attitudes do not change......


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maple1736)
    Tbh, lower VAT won't do much better as its chain effects on other things like employment is ambiguous, it's not going to have a major impact. Currently UK is very unattractive in terms of corporation tax compared to other countries and lack of foreign investment will certainly not be a good thing especially in the long-term! Look at RoI, they lower the CT a few years ago and lost about 3% of total fax revenue, but doubled income tax! However, bad time will continue for the foreseeable future if ppl's attitudes do not change......


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lowering VAT would help alleviate poverty and increase consumer spending

    CT will be 20% soon!

    We are competitive some of the lowest tax in the G20!
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    Lowering VAT would help alleviate poverty and increase consumer spending

    CT will be 20% soon!

    We are competitive some of the lowest tax in the G20!
    It might indeed. From what I know VAT is charged on most luxuary goods, which does not affect most poor people to a significant extent as many normal day to day supplies are either at reduced rate (5%) or zero rate. Although it seems that customer got the final hit, but what HMRC does is they collect VAT from every stages where a good or a service passes through the chain until it hits the final consumer. Therefore lowering VAT might indeed help business more and possible the poor people,too. But it won't solve employment issues in my opinion. Lowering VAT will only help the system to gain some forms of legitimacy by making it looks fairer...

    20% is never competitive, the RoI is around 12% and if you want to invest in the EU,make your pick (holding other things constant btw)! No wonder why amazon and Starbucks got engage in earning management to avoid paying the UK Corporation Tax!

    Solving poverty is never a possible goal in capitalism and whatever the government do will never help because in a world like the one we live in, there will be poor people in order to make others wealthy! If we solve poverty, where will you see those billionaires? For someone in this country living on minimum wages might be considered poor, but these guys are alot richer compared to those live in the likes of Africa and parts of Asia. There are alot things to blame for ppl being poor in this country yet many still have the ££ to waste on the likes of achool and smoking.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maple1736)
    It might indeed. From what I know VAT is charged on most luxuary goods, which does not affect most poor people to a significant extent as many normal day to day supplies are either at reduced rate (5%) or zero rate. Although it seems that customer got the final hit, but what HMRC does is they collect VAT from every stages where a good or a service passes through the chain until it hits the final consumer. Therefore lowering VAT might indeed help business more and possible the poor people,too. But it won't solve employment issues in my opinion. Lowering VAT will only help the system to gain some forms of legitimacy by making it looks fairer...

    20% is never competitive, the RoI is around 12% and if you want to invest in the EU,make your pick (holding other things constant btw)! No wonder why amazon and Starbucks got engage in earning management to avoid paying the UK Corporation Tax!

    Solving poverty is never a possible goal in capitalism and whatever the government do will never help because in a world like the one we live in, there will be poor people in order to make others wealthy! If we solve poverty, where will you see those billionaires? For someone in this country living on minimum wages might be considered poor, but these guys are alot richer compared to those live in the likes of Africa and parts of Asia. There are alot things to blame for ppl being poor in this country yet many still have the ££ to waste on the likes of achool and smoking.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Not to be rude but you seem totally incorrect. VAT is a regressive tax that harms the poorest most. See this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12111507

    But that would be a race to the bottom. Eventually corporation tax could be say 10% maybe even 0% if a super right-wing Thatcher comes to power!

    But social cohesion is at risk if the gap becomes too big
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a729)
    Not to be rude but you seem totally incorrect. VAT is a regressive tax that harms the poorest most. See this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12111507

    But that would be a race to the bottom. Eventually corporation tax could be say 10% maybe even 0% if a super right-wing Thatcher comes to power!

    But social cohesion is at risk if the gap becomes too big

    VAT is indeed a regressive tax which generate perceived/actual equity problems for a tax system. From what I know the effects of an expenditure tax (increased savings and investments coupled with decreased consumer debt) are likely to be looked upon favourably by the government due to the positive (possible) impact it has on the economy. It does encourage spending which is what we need at the minute. If more money is saved due to high VAT rate, less will be spent. Tax receipts for the government will therefore decrease in the present, however savings will be spent eventually and will therefore be taxed in the future. To me this is basically 'borrowing from the future' technique which harms the whole country in the long run. I am not an economist so I might be wrong with that. VAT accounts for about 19% of the total tax revenue for the UK since 2003 so clearly it is quite important form of revenue.

    From what I know (indeed could be wrong), if you imagine this as a simple 'money game', you argued to encourage people to spend or lower the tax burden placed on the poor people, which is absolutely fine with me. I argued if you want to help them to be 'less poor', give them opportunity to work more (therefore earn more money) by allowing business to employ them! I am not disagreeing with you totally, I am just say in my opinion corporation tax might be one feasible way. Also, I don't know anything from sociology so cannot comment on the effects of poverty and so on. I am just simply expressing my view on the current TAX and benefit cut issue which indeed impact most poor people in this country. I am also one of those affected by the benefit cut and I come from a poor family background so I personally think VAT is actually 'avoidable' in some way and if you have been poor for long enough you will see what I mean. The perceived effects that are listed on the econ or tax text books are , in my opinion, theories that have too many unreal underlying assumptions. That's only my opinion tho, could be totally wrong indeed!
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.