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UK financial losses as a result of 'benefit scrounging' versus tax evasion? watch

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    A massive concern of the government is people wrongly claiming benefits. I feel like this is blown out of proportion, people read exaggerated DM articles of families on benefits eating caviar with silver spoons and apply that to everyone on benefits. But the rich and corporate tax evaders seem to be so easily let off the hook?

    So I'd love to see some unbiased figures/ estimations of losses as a result of benefit scroungers and also tax evasions? The government always complains that we lose out on millions because of benefit scroungers as they so lovingly call them. But how do they even separate the needy from the greedy and lazy? All these welfare cuts aren't attacking purely benefits scroungers, but more or less everyone poor off.
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    Tax evasion would probably pay for all the false claims 100's of times over.
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    Cameron and his 'mates'...
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Tax evasion would probably pay for all the false claims 100's of times over.
    That's dubious logic. Even if we were the richest nation on Earth with no debt and huge surpluses, that doesn't mean we should suddenly start tolerating welfare fraud. People don't seem to realise it's IDS and the DWP's job to reform the welfare system and bring our massive benefit bill (£115 billion) under control. Tax evasion has nothing to do with them and isn't an excuse for benefit fraud, but since you mention it the government is taking huge measures to tackle tax evasion and under the coalition the rich have and will continue to pay a greater proportion of taxes than any single year of the 1997-2010 Labour governments. People need to get a clue and stop falling for Labour's smoke and daggers political games.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    That's dubious logic. Even if we were the richest nation on Earth with no debt and huge surpluses, that doesn't mean we should suddenly start tolerating welfare fraud. People don't seem to realise it's IDS and the DWP's job to reform the welfare system and bring our massive benefit bill (£115 billion) under control. Tax evasion has nothing to do with them and isn't an excuse for benefit fraud, but since you mention it the government is taking huge measures to tackle tax evasion and under the coalition the rich have and will continue to pay a greater proportion of taxes than any single year of the 1997-2010 Labour governments. People need to get a clue and stop falling for Labour's smoke and daggers political games.
    But what the government isn't doing is tightening up the system to make it a lot harder for frauds to 'cheat the system, instead what they are doing is making massive cuts. Genuine people in genuine situations are being attacked. I'm all for stopping the benefit fraud, but I believe he's just using the 'benefit scroungers' as an excuse to attack and diminish the system altogether. Of course he is, he's Tory. But I severely dislike the dishonest way he's going about it.
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    Its interesting to look at the figures of estimated fraud in the benefits system and estimates on how much is unclaimed.

    Anyone want to have a guess at the figures?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Its interesting to look at the figures of estimated fraud in the benefits system and estimates on how much is unclaimed.

    Anyone want to have a guess at the figures?
    Not as much as people'd think, I reckon.
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    This has come up before, and I recall using this graphic in the past:



    A little out of date now- the figures for fraud will be even lower due to the ever-tightening restrictions that have been implemented in the past few years, and the figures for government error will be even higher due to cuts to staff and the increased workloads at the DWP/HMRC.

    I believe the amount of unclaimed benefits runs into the tens of billions, and affects millions of people.

    Given this disparity it seems obvious that the systems in place for the assessment and distribution of benefits are too obstructive, too arbitrary and the bureaucracy too opaque. Rather than constant means testing, inflexible assessments and institutional targets for sanctioning individuals we need more universal benefits and genuinely flexible, responsive assessments to ensure those who need benefits actually get them, even if it does mean a few shysters find it easier to play the system. It's by far the lesser 'evil'.
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    Cameron and his "back-handing" mates. It annoys me so much because the fact that he allows people like Vodafone to get away from paying tax with the exchange of some money behind closed doors
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    If you ever watch one of those programmes where they catch the benefit thieves it's surprisingly silly how far people go for that couple of thousand only to get caught a few years later. I'd say tax evasion could cost more but the amount of resources they invest in catching the benefit thieves could push that to cost more.
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    The Universal Credit is in part being introduced as something simpler, so presumably less opportunities for fraud. So how about a simpler tax system with very few exemptions, so less opportunities for avoidance or tax dodging?
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    (Original post by creak)
    This has come up before, and I recall using this graphic in the past:



    A little out of date now- the figures for fraud will be even lower due to the ever-tightening restrictions that have been implemented in the past few years, and the figures for government error will be even higher due to cuts to staff and the increased workloads at the DWP/HMRC.

    I believe the amount of unclaimed benefits runs into the tens of billions, and affects millions of people.

    Given this disparity it seems obvious that the systems in place for the assessment and distribution of benefits are too obstructive, too arbitrary and the bureaucracy too opaque. Rather than constant means testing, inflexible assessments and institutional targets for sanctioning individuals we need more universal benefits and genuinely flexible, responsive assessments to ensure those who need benefits actually get them, even if it does mean a few shysters find it easier to play the system. It's by far the lesser 'evil'.
    Very interesting. Thanks
    Any tax evasion estimations anyone?
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    Very interesting. Thanks
    Any tax evasion estimations anyone?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...-treasury-loss

    According to the guardian of newspapers, it puts it at less than that.

    So benefit fraud is higher.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...-treasury-loss

    According to the guardian of newspapers, it puts it at less than that.

    So benefit fraud is higher.
    How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
    benefit fraud 5.2

    tax evading 5

    ergo benefit fraud > tax evading.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    benefit fraud 5.2

    tax evading 5

    ergo benefit fraud > tax evading.
    No that includes error as well as fraud. Error is a different matter entirely.
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    No that includes error as well as fraud. Error is a different matter entirely.
    Regardless, that fraud graph is nearly 5 years out of date. The article I found is current.

    So likely to to be more im afraid.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Regardless, that fraud graph is nearly 5 years out of date. The article I found is current.

    So likely to to be more im afraid.
    Who are you to come to that conclusion?
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    (Original post by pandabird)
    Who are you to come to that conclusion?
    Basic economics and common sense my friend.

    Hence why the benefit bill is more than it was in 2008, and hence why avoidance will increase.

    Unless you have evidence to show fraud has decreased substantially since then, my point stands.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Basic economics and common sense my friend.

    Hence why the benefit bill is more than it was in 2008, and hence why avoidance will increase.

    Unless you have evidence to show fraud has decreased substantially since then, my point stands.
    You haven't provided any fact to prove your point? You've even posted a graph illustrating that tax avoidance is higher than benefit fraud? Of course we can't do a strict comparison because of the year gap but we can come to some conclusion, unless you can provide an explanation for any increase in fraud and decrease in avoidance.
 
 
 
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