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Labour and the left don't care about the working class. Watch

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    If labour and the left cared about the working classes, then to me it seem perfectly logical that they would care about the people funding their programs. Yet I see Miliband coming out with the sort of rhetoric that would simply mean that less money is collected in net tax receipts. Also its worth pointing out that Labour only put the tax up to 50p in their dying days in office, so it is hypocritical to attack the current government over this policy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...s-bonuses.html

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, then they would take note of poll after poll (one example below), which shows that most people including their own supporters, support welfare cuts.

    http://cdn.yougov.com/today_uk_impor...its-101110.pdf

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, it would accept that welfare has created an ugly underclass in britain, living in a state of dependency in desperate need of real opportunities and chances to climb the social ladder. Their incessant craving of political correctness simply fuels how out of touch they are.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...l-correctness/

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    What you see above is not right wing rhetoric, it is simply to the truth. I have left you with some links which you can view at your pleasure. But I just wanted to use this thread to dispel some of myths that people like to sew on here. I understand that their are some very legitimate issues right now, but the way in which we address these problems is not the medicine of the past. That course of medication has failed, and now it is time for a new line of treatment.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    If labour and the left cared about the working classes, then to me it seem perfectly logical that they would care about the people funding their programs. Yet I see Miliband coming out with the sort of rhetoric that would simply mean that less money is collected in net tax receipts. Also its worth pointing out that Labour only put the tax up to 50p in their dying days in office, so it is hypocritical to attack the current government over this policy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...s-bonuses.html

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, then they would take note of poll after poll (one example below), which shows that most people including their own supporters, support welfare cuts.

    http://cdn.yougov.com/today_uk_impor...its-101110.pdf

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, it would accept that welfare has created an ugly underclass in britain, living in a state of dependency in desperate need of real opportunities and chances to climb the social ladder. Their incessant craving of political correctness simply fuels how out of touch they are.
    What type of welfare do you mean? The largest share goes to pensioners- for example they get £400 annually regardless of wealth in the winter.
    Plus a lot of effective 'welfare' goes to the working class.
    Even child benefit is now mean-tested (why don't they make all benefits means-tested?)

    Though i totally agree with you about us needing to stop encouraging the new 'non-working class' of able-bodied people who prefer benefits rather than working.

    Though it would be good for the government to invest in job creation to offset the effects of less welfare
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    (Original post by dj1015)

    What you see above is not right wing rhetoric, it is simply to the truth. I have left you with some links which you can view at your pleasure. But I just wanted to use this thread to dispel some of myths that people like to sew on here. I understand that their are some very legitimate issues right now, but the way in which we address these problems is not the medicine of the past. That course of medication has failed, and now it is time for a new line of treatment.
    Yeah, no right wing rhetoric on the Telegraph blogs, oh no. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yeah, no right wing rhetoric on the Telegraph blogs, oh no. :rolleyes:
    Do you not a retort to my other points? Are you saying that everything else is correct?
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Do you not a retort to my other points? Are you saying that everything else is correct?
    There didn't seem to be a lot of point engaging with the rest of the rant, to be honest, plus I had some plain chocolate to eat.
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    (Original post by a729)
    What type of welfare do you mean?
    I would hesitate at cutting pensions. People who have retired can do little to change the circumstances. However pensions for people who will retire in a few generations should be radically changed, so they are not as generous to the work shy.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There didn't seem to be a lot of point engaging with the rest of the rant, to be honest, plus I had some plain chocolate to eat.
    So you just wanted to tell me that the telegraph blog is "right wing". But it was a excellent piece by IDS, hardly a piece of right wing spin.

    So while it may seem ideological to you, it doesn't to me. I guess you only reject the evidence if you don't agree with its conclusions.

    But will you not admit, that Labour and left are making errors in this area, sometimes with tragic effects?
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    You have made the claim, "the left don't care about the working class", without anything whatsoever to back it up.

    You can't tarnish an entire sphere of political thought merely by associating it with a party you don't like (Labour), as Labour are not exclusive representatives of leftist thought.

    So feel free to admit that claim was completely baseless, any time.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    You have made the claim, "the left don't care about the working class", without anything whatsoever to back it up.

    You can't tarnish an entire sphere of political thought merely by associating it with a party you don't like (Labour), as Labour are not exclusive representatives of leftist thought.

    So feel free to admit that claim was completely baseless, any time.
    Did you stop reading after the title? Because I went to explain in painful detail how they don't care. Through the increasing of taxes on the rich, trapping people on welfare and political correctness. I also provided URL's to reputable sources to further back up these claims.
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    Labour may not care too much, but 'The Left' does.

    Even though I can vote now, I am not sure who to vote for. There is no party that truly supports Democratic Socialism. Labour used to, a long long time ago.

    I might just vote for Lib Dems to piss everyone off.
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    Why does a right wing party not care about left wing/working class people?

    Who would've thought it!
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Did you stop reading after the title? Because I went to explain in painful detail how they don't care. Through the increasing of taxes on the rich, trapping people on welfare and political correctness. I also provided URL's to reputable sources to further back up these claims.
    You misunderstand. Look at what you wrote.

    "Labour and the left."

    You have found evidence that you believe discredits Labour, and because you see Labour as being part of "the left", you are trying to claim it also discredits "the left" as a whole. But you have absolutely nothing to justify that generalisation with. It literally is, "Some leftists did this, therefore all leftists think like this."

    It's a non-sequitur. You don't have the grounds to make the claim.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    You misunderstand. Look at what you wrote.

    "Labour and the left."

    You have found evidence that you believe discredits Labour, and because you see Labour as being part of "the left", you are trying to claim it also discredits "the left" as a whole. But you have absolutely nothing to justify that generalisation with. It literally is, "Some leftists did this, therefore all leftists think like this."

    It's a non-sequitur. You don't have the grounds to make the claim.
    Labour are a focus point and mouth piece for the left. Blair might have dragged them right, but that idiot Miliband is undoing that as fast as he can.

    Further evidence that Labour are left can be found by examining their supporters in more detail. For example prominent left wing think tank The Fabian Society.

    The Millipede and his Ball may occasionally spout some right wing rhetoric, but the reality is very different. The only real right wing party in this country is UKIP. And on occasion the Converstivies.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    If labour and the left cared about the working classes, then to me it seem perfectly logical that they would care about the people funding their programs. Yet I see Miliband coming out with the sort of rhetoric that would simply mean that less money is collected in net tax receipts. Also its worth pointing out that Labour only put the tax up to 50p in their dying days in office, so it is hypocritical to attack the current government over this policy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...s-bonuses.html

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, then they would take note of poll after poll (one example below), which shows that most people including their own supporters, support welfare cuts.

    http://cdn.yougov.com/today_uk_impor...its-101110.pdf

    If Labour and the left cared about the working classes, it would accept that welfare has created an ugly underclass in britain, living in a state of dependency in desperate need of real opportunities and chances to climb the social ladder. Their incessant craving of political correctness simply fuels how out of touch they are.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...l-correctness/

    -------------

    What you see above is not right wing rhetoric, it is simply to the truth. I have left you with some links which you can view at your pleasure. But I just wanted to use this thread to dispel some of myths that people like to sew on here. I understand that their are some very legitimate issues right now, but the way in which we address these problems is not the medicine of the past. That course of medication has failed, and now it is time for a new line of treatment.
    If Labour cared about the working class they would promise to halt mass-immigration of low-skilled workers at a time of mass unemployment with 1 in 5 young people unemployed. Maybe then Labour would get nearer to the living wage they want without migrant workers ensuring that the NMW becomes a maximum for most low-skilled work.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Labour are a focus point and mouth piece for the left. Blair might have dragged them right, but that idiot Miliband is undoing that as fast as he can.
    They may be a mouth piece for the left but they are not the mouthpiece for the left (a frankly non-existent political faction given the radically different political views held within).

    Further evidence that Labour are left can be found by examining their supporters in more detail. For example prominent left wing think tank The Fabian Society.
    They may be left-wing but that does not mean you can claim they speak for all left-wingers.


    It's not hard to get.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    I would hesitate at cutting pensions. People who have retired can do little to change the circumstances. However pensions for people who will retire in a few generations should be radically changed, so they are not as generous to the work shy.
    Yeah it's a basic issue of fairness. They paid their NI contributions in good faith, they were promised it would pay for them in old age. It's not their fault the Treasury can't decide the difference between NI and Income Tax so decides to squander it all anyway.

    But the pensions timebomb needs to be sorted for future generations.

    People living for longer, social care costs rising. It just isn't feasible to expect to spending a third of your life being uneconomically productive and expect the state to foot the bill - something has got to give:
    - the government gets out of providing pensions; or
    - increase NI contributions (oh my that would be popular); or
    - increase the qualifying conditions for pensions e.g. having to work longer (oh my that would be popular as well)

    Bit of a mess as the oldies come out in such force to vote as well
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    Quite commonly now, the term 'working class' isn't really relevant anymore. So many people class themselves as 'middle class' it is ridiculous. Labour supports equality and a fair chance for all, and to be able to appeal to the majority not the minority, they had to move away from their unionist roots, but mark my words we haven't abandoned our trade union affiliates. Ed Miliband was elected leader, due to the trade unions, Labour HAS to listen to its further left supports more than ever to move away from this so called 'Blairite Labour' 'New Labour' 'Blue Labour' in order to show we do care about our traditional supporters. However, I believe that despite the fact that we may not be focusing on the working class and what they want, the reform that will be proposed by Labour will benefit them much more than this awful coalition.

    I think you can tell which party I'm an avid member of....
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    They may be a mouth piece for the left but they are not the mouthpiece for the left (a frankly non-existent political faction given the radically different political views held within).



    They may be left-wing but that does not mean you can claim they speak for all left-wingers.


    It's not hard to get.
    Claiming that the left is non-existent is a rubbish. Its never been more prevalent. Marxism is on the rise constantly and we are a slippery slope towards a totalitarian state.

    Would you like me to find other examples of left wing Labour support, to further solidify the fact they are representatives of the part of the spectrum.

    Also this need not be left at the door step of Labour. Non-parties like the Greens and the SWP dont care about the working class. To them its about ideology and forcing as many people to be as subservient to the state as possible.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Claiming that the left is non-existent is a rubbish. Its never been more prevalent. Marxism is on the rise constantly and we are a slippery slope towards a totalitarian state.

    Would you like me to find other examples of left wing Labour support, to further solidify the fact they are representatives of the part of the spectrum.

    Also this need not be left at the door step of Labour. Non-parties like the Greens and the SWP dont care about the working class. To them its about ideology and forcing as many people to be as subservient to the state as possible.
    You speak about "the left" as if they are this unified political faction, and they're not. Like all ridiculously broad and vague political labels, the proponents are extremely fragmented. I'll ignore the ridiculous alarmist comment about being on the slide towards a LEFTY TOTALITARIAN STATE given the fact it's pretty obvious free market ideals are more widely supported now than ever before.

    Labour do not speak for all leftists. End of story. You have absolutely nothing to back that claim up with except "b-b-but they do, honest!"
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    Old Labour were a party for the working class. In fact they were so successful at representing ordinary workers that they allowed the Unions to bring this country to it's knees with strikes and inflation-busting wage demands.

    New Labour ditched this approach in favour of internationalism and spin. Blair and Co were so wrapped up in maintaining an international presence with the U.S and E.U etc that they totally forgot to represent the people who actually voted them in. New Labour is now just a hollow PR machine that has been designed to funnel money into the pockets of the undeserving, it's only interested in the 'working class' to the extent that it can bribe poor people with cash benefits in exchange for votes. It's an ideological wreck of a party.
 
 
 
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